I saw loads of questions and comments all over the Web yesterday about Adobe’s announcements. The new features part got lots of love. Adobe’s new subscription-only plan for their Creative Cloud software, not so much (and that’s being kind), so I thought I’d do a quick Q&A giving my take on it all.

Q. Scott, should I be freaking out?
A. Absolutely not. I saw a lot of nasty comments yesterday (I’m sure you did, too), but a lot of what I read was based on mis-information or was just plain wrong. 

Q. Can you give me an example?
A. Sure. I read a bunch of people in forums claiming that Adobe isn’t going to release any bug fixes for Photoshop CS6. Actually, Adobe said just the opposite. They said they would be updating CS6 with bug fixes as necessary — they’re just not adding any new features (well, technically they did go back to CS6 and add a major new feature —- they added the HiDPI support for computers with high dpi displays, like the Retina display on the MacBook Pro, but you know what I mean).

Q. So, Adobe isn’t going to add any new features to Photoshop CS6?
A. Um…no, but that’s not new. I don’t remember Adobe ever going back and adding new features to a previous version of Photoshop once a new version has been announced. 

Q. So they announced a new version of Photoshop?
A. Yup. It’s called Photoshop CC (for Creative Cloud), and it’s got a bunch of new features, and it’s the 2nd feature update they’ve issued for the Creative Cloud. 

Q. I heard we have to subscribe to get these new features. Is that true?
A. Yup. The new features aren’t being added to the old version of Photoshop (CS6), so to get the new features you’ll need to subscribe. 

Q. So I have to pay $50 a month to get these new features!!!!
A. Nope. For some reason, everyone is acting like you have to subscribe to the complete Creative Cloud program to get the new features in Photoshop. Actually you subscribe to just Photoshop by itself for $19.95 a month (Adobe calls this a “Single App subscription”). By the way, this $19.95 Photoshop-only subscription thing isn’t new (it just seems like nobody really knows about it, so everybody’s all focused on the $50-a-month thing). 

Q. But Photoshop CS6 came out just over a year ago. Now I have to shell out $20 a month?
A. Nope — they have a discount for folks who already bought CS6 (or CS5, CS4 even back to CS3) — they get a one-year intro-deal on a Photoshop CC subscription for just $10 a month and they get all the new features (along with any new ones that are released, for as long as they’re subscribed). 

Q. So then I don’t actually have to pay $50 a month for Photoshop?
A. That’s right — the $49.95 monthly subscription is only if you want the full Creative Cloud, which gives you all the Creative Suite Master Collection Applications as well, like InDesign, Illustrator, Premiere Pro, After Effects, Muse, and on and on, plus a bunch of new Cloud-based services.

Q. Yeah, but if I bought CS6 and now I want to move to the full-blown Cloud, I’m hosed right? 
A. I
f you bought CS6 and want to move up to the complete Creative Cloud, there’s a deal where you can get the whole shebang for just $19.95 a month (same price as just Photoshop alone, but you have to already be a  CS6 user to qualify). Here’s a link to the page where I found it.

Q. But I’m a photographer and I only use Photoshop. This doesn’t sound like a very good deal.
A. If all you use is Photoshop, I agree, and I wouldn’t get the complete $49.95 monthly Creative Cloud subscription — I’d just go with the $20 Photoshop-only monthly subscription instead. 

Q. What if I use Photoshop and Lightroom. Is it a good deal then?
A. I think it will be before too long (Adobe sneak peeked some cool stuff for photographers on “The Grid” last week), but honestly right now there’s not a really strong case for photographers with the complete Creative Cloud. For example, you could buy the Lightroom 5 upgrade for $79 (I’m assuming it’ll be $79 ’cause that’s what it cost last tim), and then if you’re already a Photoshop user using anything from Photoshop CS3 to CS6, just spend the $10 a month on Photoshop.

So, take the $79 plus $120 for the Photoshop CC  Single App subscription, and you’re around $200. If you went with the complete Creative Cloud subscription you’d be paying $600, so by just getting those two programs (upgrading to Lightroom 5 and subscribing just to Photoshop CC), you’re saving $400 by going this way, and you still have the latest versions of the best image-editing duo on the planet. 

Q. So when does the complete Creative Cloud subscription math work out?
A. As soon as you find yourself using two or more programs (not including Lightroom). So, if you use Photoshop and InDesign, or Photoshop and Premiere Pro, or Photoshop and Muse or any other couple of Adobe programs, the deal goes from “Meh” to “Hey!!!” For example, our in-house video team thinks the complete Creative Cloud is the best thing since sliced bread because they use lots of Adobe applications. For our graphic designers, it rocks for them too because none of them uses just Photoshop. The more programs you use, the more sense it makes. This is why, right now, I don’t think it makes that much sense for photographers, who are going to use just one or two programs (if you count Lightroom, which is included in the complete Creative Cloud) but I think that will change in the future as Adobe adds more photographer-centric features. 

Q. But what if Adobe raises the price on me?
A. I doubt I’ll be in my 60s and the price for the Creative Cloud will still be the same. At some point, it’ll probably go up, but any company can raise the price of any of their products at any time, just like the US Post Office does with the price of a stamp (and most companies do pretty regularly, which is why everything costs us more today  from milk to gas to coffee). Also, just like any product, you don’t have to buy it if they do raise the price. 

Q. So what happens if I can’t pay my subscription one month?
A. The same thing that happens if you can’t make your car payment. Two big burly guys come to your house in the middle of the night and take back your copy of Photoshop.

Q. Really?!
A. Well, they don’t come to your house per se (they do it digitally), but why chance it?

Q. I read that the Creative Cloud apps run in a Browser. Is that true?
A. I can’t believe I keep reading this, but no. No, no, no. They don’t run in your browser. All the Adobe desktop apps in the Creative Cloud  (like Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator, etc.) run like they always did — on your desktop. But instead of getting a box shipped to you, you just download the software from “The Cloud.”

Q. I also read you always have to be online because it checks every day to see if your subscription is current. What if I’m not online when they check each day?
A. It’s my understanding that if you’re an annual subscriber, it only checks once-a-month to confirm your registration — not every day, all day, and annual subscribers can actually be off-line for up to 99 days straight and it still keep their subscription active (but I can’t remember ever meeting anyone who was offline for 99 days. I did hear stories of a Grandmother in Wyoming once though). For monthly subscribers, I think you can be offline for around 37 days, but still — I don’t know where this whole “check every day” thing came from either, but my advice would be; when they come to check, quickly turn out the lights and hide behind the couch.

Q. Will that work?
A. I’m not certain, but again, why chance it?

Q. Why is Adobe the only one doing this?
A. Actually, they’re not (look at AutoDesk, Audible, Microsoft, iTunes Match, Amazon Prime, etc.), and I imagine within just a couple of years (or less), this subscription model will become the norm. Don’t shoot the messenger. Shoot Brad instead.

Q. Hey, I bought CS6 last year. Aren’t I entitled to these feature updates for free?
A. Well, every time Adobe releases a new version of their software, only people that buy the new software get the new features. If you look in your copy of CS5, you won’t find any of the CS6 features in there — only the people that bought CS6 get them. When you bought CS6, you bought it based on the features that were in there at the time, and that’s exactly what you got. There was no promise that if Adobe came out with new features that you’d get them — new features always go in the next version of the software.

Q. Well, that’s not exactly true. Creative Cloud subscribers got those features free!
A. That’s true, because subscribers get new features free, as soon as they’re ready, so they’re always on the latest version of the software.

Q. So basically, Adobe is using that as a marketing thing to get people to subscribe to the Creative Cloud?
A. Wellâ¦yeah. Cloud subscribers get the new features free as soon as they’re ready. It made me want to subscribe.

Q. That’s not fair!
A. You seriously need to find the person who, at some point in your life, mistakenly told you that life was fair and clonk them with that round cardboard tube that comes inside Christmas wrapping paper.

Q. What if I don’t want to subscribe? What if I don’t want to “rent” my software?
A. You don’t have to. You can still buy the retail version of Photoshop CS6 just like always, and you’ll own it and there’s no monthly fee. 

Q. Well, how much does Photoshop CS6 cost?
A. I believe it’s $700 (ish).

Q. Wow. Renting doesn’t sound so bad now. 
A. I know, right?

Q. I know you said we can still buy Photoshop CS6, but I just scoured Adobe’s Website and I can’t find any link to it at all.
A. Me either. I searched all over, even got friends to help search with me, and I couldn’t find it for a long time (apparently buying CS6 includes a game of “needle in the haystack” first) but eventually I uncovered it. Here’s the link.

Q. So Scott, what do you think is a fair price for a bundle of both Photoshop CC and Lightroom 5?
A. A bunch of folks watching our live broadcast with Adobe’s Tom Hogarty thought the sweet spot for a bundle of the two of them would be $20, and I agree — that would be ideal. Probably isn’t going to happen, cause that would be both at about $10 a month, and one costs $700 and one costs $149. If you’re thinking, “Hey, $15 sounds great” I wouldn’t hold my breath for that either. I think $24.95 would still be really reasonable, but of course it’s not up to me. 

Q. So have you talked to Adobe about all this new pricing stuff?
A. Absolutely. I’ve been out there for meetings, I’ve had numerous conference calls, I’m on an Adobe advisory board, and I’ve been in close contact with Adobe over all of this and I’ve given my opinion to the point that I can’t believe they would actually continue to take my calls. But at the end of the day, I can only offer advice and give them the perspective of the 70,000 NAPP members I represent, but I’m not the Adobe CEO, and product pricing is not my call to make.

This is the product direction Adobe chose going forward, made by people with a much higher pay grade than me. I’m glad they asked at all. Most companies wouldn’t have. I also think they really listened (not just to me, but a wide range of industry influencers and longtime customers and I think that’s why some of the pricing deals and discounts are as low as they are. $10 a month for the latest Photoshop? That’s a pretty unbelievable price honestly — lower than I thought they’d ever go). But the software market has changed tremendously in the past few years and they have to do what they feel is best course for their products and their company going forward. By the way, this subscription model isn’t just where the future of software in general is going. It’s already here (as I mentioned earlier).  

Q. Do you think Adobe will change their mind about this?
A. No. This isn’t a decision they made two weeks ago, and Adobe knows there are a ton of people who already subscribe to the Creative Cloud (the last figure I heard was over 500,000 subscribers and growing, which is pretty staggering) and there are a ton of people who absolutely love the Creative Cloud, the tools it brings and the opportunities and doors it opens. I run into people while I’m out on tour who wouldn’t go back to the old way if you paid them, so while it may not be perfect for everyone just yet, this is pretty much just “Creative Cloud 1.0.” I’m honestly surprised at what Adobe has added in just one year, and I’ve seen some things that are coming, and I imagine before too long everybody will want to be in on this because Adobe is working on some truly groundbreaking stuff. 

Q. I know, I know, but I’m just so mad about all this!
A. Change freaks a lot of people out, and all the misinformation out there hasn’t helped either. But just know that you still have lots of options, so don’t feel like you’re being forced down one particular road. You can subscribe to just Photoshop. You can buy and own Photoshop CS6. You can join the whole Creative Cloud, or not. You can keep the software you already have and keep using it for years. You can sit on the sidelines and just see how this whole thing plays out, but regardless, you still have options. 

Q. So what are you going to do?
A. I subscribed to the Creative Cloud about two weeks after Adobe announced it, and I love it. I do use more than just Lightroom and Photoshop (I’ve been using InDesign all day today), and for me, and for my company, it not only makes sense, it saves me money. I’ve spent my entire career waiting 18 to 20 months for Adobe to release new Photoshop features. Now, I get them as soon as they’re ready. The waiting is over, and the decision was an easy one, but again, I had options. You do, too. 

I hope that helped to clear some things up.

Best,

-Scott

About The Author

Scott is the President of KelbyOne, an online educational community for Photographers, Photoshop and Lightroom users. He's editor and publisher of Photoshop User Magazine, Conference Technical Chair for the Photoshop World Conference & Expo, and the author of a string of bestselling Photoshop, Lightroom, and photography books.

653 Comments

  1. I’ve read a lot of opinions on this new direction Adobe is taking and was curious about your take on it. I think I agree with what Thom Hogan said: it was inevitable and more offerings will be going this way or to a throwaway app.

    I think my biggest issue with this CC subscription is that the value isn’t there for an amateur anymore. A lot of people would update once every couple of versions and if they want to stick with Photoshop it would raise their cost a great deal. The Q&A from Adobe mentioned that they recognize that Lightroom is used by many enthusiasts just as with professionals so they weren’t ready to make it a subscription product yet. So I’d expect that for Lightroom 6. But Adobe seems to be mis-reading the enthusiast market. I’ve used Photoshop since 1.0 and my upgrades were always upgrades and not full price. Now I’m contemplating the value proposition of upgrading more than ever.

    I see this can open the door to competitors, too. A lot of people bought Photoshop because it is the best, not because they needed it, and because it has the best training out there (NAPP). But if Nikon could deliver a Capture NX3 or one of the cheaper alternatives (Acorn, Pixelmator, etc.) could gain some key features it might just swing the amateurs (and some pros) over.
    I will probably stick with Photoshop CS6 until it grows incompatible with future OS releases and then move on to another tool. And then I’ll wait and see if plugins and tools for PS/Lightroom go cloud only subscriptions, too.

  2. Q. Wow. Renting doesn’t sound so bad now

    For me, it still does. This costs me ( currently using LR5 and Creative Suite Standard for Students ) much more. I had CS3 and jumped directly to CS5 and then to CS6. That was a lot cheaper as if I would have had to pay a monthly fee. Oh, and I can still use all of them. What about that?

  3. People keep saying subscription software is the model of the future, but the Apple App Store is the opposite model, with constantly updated software, low prices and licensing for numerous computers on the same account.

    While subscription might work for pros, it’s not great for amateurs who only need some of the features some of the time.

    I also fail to see how this can be seen as the only solution Adobe could come up with. They’re already checking whether my copy was validated on my computer, so if they can do that with a packaged product, why do they need to move completely to a subscription model?

  4. How does this subscription method work for those of us that run it on two or more computers, do we subscribe per computer or user???

    • I looked this up too because I have CS6 and LR4 installed on 3 computers. The rules say that you can install and run CC in on two computers, just like you can now. What is not written is can you turn on and off the activation on various computers like you can now. So I have them installed on my desktop and two laptops, only activated on one laptop, but when I teach and travel I deactivate my desktop version and activate my second laptop version. Not sure if I can still do that. Many people who teach and who travel have a backup laptop…

      • You use your adobe ID to sign in and verify your subscription / authorise a computer when you install/open an application on a new computer. If you already have two computers authorised with your Adobe ID, you are then given the option to authorise the current computer you are using and deactivate the authorisation of the other computers (I can’t remember if it deactivates both the previous computers of just one). It’s really simple, I’ve been using it from day one and authorisation has never been an issue (apart from with Muse occasionally thinks I have more than two active authorised computers, but that’s easy to rectify).

      • Yes, you can. It’s what I do.

    • Additionally, my husband has a desktop and a laptop. So, in the past, we
      would pay $340 for two CS6 upgrade licenses and $180 for two LR4
      upgrades ($520 for 18 months or just under $30 per month, now that same
      upgrade would cost me ~$100 per month, $49 times two licenses) — so my
      $520 every 18 months becomes $1800!

      • Re-read Scott’s post, you can get Photoshop ALONE for only $19.95 a month and it will only be $9.95 for the first year! Then just continue to purchase a traditional LR upgrade as you always have. You will not be paying $100 a month for two licenses you will only be paying $40 dollars a month, but for the first year you will only be paying $20 dollars a month!

      • A CC license gives you the ability to activate two licenses. You don’t even have to have the same platform ((I use mine on a Mac and a PC). Lightroom was included in the CC license so far. I hope that won’t change. Anyway from your example you would pay maybe 20/25 a month (waiting on Adobe for the idea of PS/LR only license) for both your devices. Seems like a significant reduction to me.

        If you have more than two machines then you just have to move the active license to the one you are working on. You can’t have 3 running on the license.

    • When Adobe made the policy of needing consecutive versions to be able to upgrade the came right short of a red line. The latest policy goes way over the red line and so no more photoshop and probably lightroom as well. No more NAPP membership unless

      alternative software gets the same attention as Adobe.

      I regret the tens of thousands of files I converted .to .dng or .psd since both my photoshop and lightroom were purchased as downloads and I am sure will not be available for future computer upgrades.

  5. EXCELLENT! I was also reading so many rumors. Great job setting these rumors straight and putting the whole “change” thing in perspective. (Now, where’s Brad?)

  6. Thanks for the Q&A, Scott. Here’s another question… Currently, with my CS6, I can install it on two computers – my desktop and my laptop. Is that also true with the Creative Cloud?

  7. Scott, I was more curious in your response than anyone else’s. I’m glad you address a lot of the misinformation. But, I’m hoping as the dust settles, you don’t realize that this is a major let down to users.

    Assuming you are a Photoshop user already, and who isn’t, the answer to, “How much does Photoshop Version Latest Cost” is $199 for an upgrade. And since it’s been 18+ months since the last upgrade, that’s only $11 a month, and that’s the way it’s been for years. Photoshop CC will now be costing $20/month. So, in theory the price has near doubled for those that are maintaining a current status.

    Of course this can be debated on forums. I do have 2 questions that I haven’t seen out there-

    – As a NAPP member, I got Adobe discounts today for Photoshop, can Adobe do the similar for the subscription model?
    – If I switch from Photoshop CS6 to CC, does that nullify my license for CS6? Again, thinking to the not knowing what life throws at you quandry.. Can I still legally dust off my CS6 and edit my photos if I can’t make those payments?

  8. I’m sure the Creative Cloud pricing structure makes a lot of sense for professionals, but I have to agree with Neil that it just doesn’t make sense for amateurs or hobbyists anymore. As a hobby I can justify $200 for an upgrade every 3 versions as part of the cost of my hobby. If you assume a new version every year (I know it has usually been longer than that) three years of creative cloud equates to $720 which is over 3 times more expensive and the numbers only get worse if you increase the time between new versions.

    Yes you’re correct that other companies have gone with subscription methods. As an architect, the office I work for uses Autodesk products. The difference is that the Autodesk subscription only gives you the new versions of the software when they are released. If you stop the subscription, you still have a perpetual license and therefore a working copy of the software. That’s a huge difference.

    • That’s a good point. As a software developer I’ve seen that model for years with development tools. As long as you subscribe you get support + updates but once you stop paying you stick with what you have but you can still use it.

      • Well that’s because in those cases, you’re subscribing to support and updates. You still paid an upfront cost for the software itself. Adobe / Office 365 is just doing away with that up front cost all together.

      • Except when their cost is more than the previous upgrade costs. So they are just making the subscription cost even more without the benefit of the perpetual license if you stop subscribing.

      • Microsoft still sells Office as a non subscription license. And the lowered the price for that product with the recent version. Why give up money from the people that want that kind of license.

    • I totally agree. Here’s the thing that get’s me. Most programs I use I can get by with the version I have for a few years without having to buy a new version. Sure, for a company like NAPP where they buy the newest version as soon as it comes out this could save them money, but for the hobbyist or small business person this is a huge increase … honestly Scott that should be on your QA. Without it you are just setting up a straw-man argument. This move is not all rosy and without pain. There are a lot of people who are, with good reason, not going to like this move as it will force them to pay lots more just to get a few new features. Not to mention for people who live in rather rural areas where internet access is not great or maybe not available this is a huge blow … and this is not an overstated argument. Telcos still do not service rural areas very well for internet access … even Steve Wozniak can’t get good internet access to his house.

      Adobe has enjoyed a rather un-challenged period in this space. There is no one that seriously competes with them in this space. This might be the tipping point where other companies can step in and say “Hey you can actually buy a copy of our product that you own free and clear for as long as you wish to use it.”

    • My MSDN subscription is like the one you mentioned and the Macromedia DevNet subscription was also the same way. You quit getting updates when you stopped subscribing but you can still use the old versions w/o support. If Adobe offered the same terms then I’d have no problem whatsoever with the subscription “only’ model however there will come a point when I am no longer using Adobe apps to earn money (I do want to retire at some point in the future) and will have to look for alternatives then..

    • As a professional organization that owns several seats, I can assure you this model is NOT a good one, it will raise our 2 year costs to stay current by 240%… no thanks !

      Adobe just created Windows XP II

      • yeah I’m just trying to get my head around it too – we have about 20 seats of design standard and a few production premium and a few random seats of various of PS/AI.. we generally upgrade every 2-3 years and it costs about €20k each time we do.. normally a 2 step jump..

        so.. if we go with the teams option, at €86p/m, just say 25 seats, that’s €26k per year (I know it’s half price for the first year but I have to look at the longer game)

        now I know we get more with the master collection – it’s a great deal more. but I’m not sure we need more… but the individual licenses aren’t an option at that price either..

    • This is a big deal for academics. when you work in a grant based field subscriptions are absolutely, positively NOT an option. You never know what your funding will be from month to month, and the grant process assumes that any software you already have is there. You absolutely cannot get any grant organization to pay for subscription software. If you claim you need the money for it, they will point to your previous work and say “you made this picture, so you obviously already have what you need already and don’t need money from us”. Keep in mind that a lot of the granting organizations operate on congressional time tables; we have had to do grants for which we have had to write around rules that don’t acknowledge the existence of the internet, never mind subscription software.

      As an example, we had to pick which mechanical design software to get with our initial setup funds. Our choices were Autocad, Solidworks, and Pro-Engineer/Creo (they renamed it right in the middle of our selection process). We went with Creo. The main reason: Creo comes with a perpetual license, while the others have yearly renewal. Even yearly continuing costs were enough of an overriding factor to decide it for us. That is how much of an issue it is.

      This move basically loses the entirety of academic and grant based fields. Most of science and engineering will be using opensource (GIMP, Inkscape) or CS6 from now on due to this issue.

      • I’m a staff photographer at an university. I wonder how it’s going to go when I ask for a monthly subscription, we don’t typically pay for things that way. That is going to be an issue with a lot of school and government buyers. Adobe is opening things up for competitors.

      • Many colleges and Universities are already on an annual subscription license based on the number of users and computer lab seats.

        At this point I own current versions of Lightroom 4 and Photoshop CS6. Unless Adobe works out an acceptable pricing scheme for hobby photographers like me, I suspect I will not subscribe. Since Kelby Training and NAPP will be putting out materials on “new” features in Abobe CC, I’m also more likely drop my NAPP and Kelby training subscriptions too. Or I may eventually need the money spent on Kelby and NAPP to pay for my higher cost Adobe subscription.

      • Yes and many more dont. Usually large entities that do have subscription services have them in areas where the larger body has to have them like internet services, electricity or equipment thats just so expensive that renting rather than buying makes more sense.

        Adobe for a graphics department or for the schools offices, lets be more honest the school probably asks the graphics department to do that stuff for them just isn’t going to fly based on how variable colleges and schools budgets are.

      • I am retired from the State of Florida. Our agency had a written policy against software subscriptions. That would be the end of Adobe with them.

    • The Autodesk subscription doesn’t even compare to the creative cloud. If you are on the suites like Autodesk wants you are paying $4,000-$5,000 a year per seat.

      • The dollar amount for the Autodesk suite is irrelevant, it is the licensing structure that was being compared. When you terminate an Autodesk subscription you’re left with a perpetual license. If Adobe had come out and said that they were going to increase the time between major releases of the Creative Suite containing a perpetual license but offer a subscription service for those that wanted to have the latest updates the second they are ready for release, I don’t think many people would be complaining.

      • Um no its very relevant! Autodesk is a piece of software that is used in a limited market. their really isn’t a hobbyist and amateur artist market for it in the least.

        Autodesk charges that fee and locks down that software because it knows it market is large cooperation’s or small companies that can afford that price and model as a cost of Doing Business.

        Your point that of a perpetual license when you terminate your subscription would make it actually very attractive since it would allow you to amortize the cost over a longer period knowing that you get to keep what you paid for. kit would aslo fit in better with how existing buying cycles work for most people and companies.

      • What about the “promise” of DNG support? if dAobe goes so does that.

      • With an Autodesk subscription you still “own” the last version of the software and can continue to use it. You will not get a update if the subscription lapses.

        The cost per year, per seat is about what was the cost for an upgrade, pre subscription era.
        We have about 20 seats of AutoCAD Architecture and Revit and pay around $16K a year in subscriptions. A single seat is $5K+ subscription.

    • “…I’m sure the Creative Cloud pricing structure makes a lot of sense for professionals….”

      Michael…as a working Pro for more than 30 years, I understand how you might think so, but I have to disagree. Paying a biannual upgrade of $200 or so for the next version of Photoshop is MILES away from the $480 in monthly subscription fees you’re gonna hafta pay for a single Photoshop license over two years. And exactly what added value do I see for that extra cash? 20GB of cloud storage?!! Please…I’m sitting on roughly 64 TERABYTES of RAID systems in two locations that back up my work, so what am I gonna get out of 20 extra gigs in some cloud? I carry 2 or 3 100GB pocket drive everywhere I go so again, those 20 gigs ain’t gonna make me feel like Adobe is giving me ANYTHING worth while.

      The idea that a Pro can ‘afford’ the extra money is simply wrong, no matter how successful the photographer. If somebody walked up to you and told you to give you $280 because you could afford it, I seriously doubt you would reach for your wallet, and by the same token, I don’t feel Adobe should be asking me to shell out an extra $280 every couple of years to use their bloody program!

      • So Brad, what’s your strategy then? Would be nice to hear what a true pro would do in such a situation adobe is pulling us in now..

      • Well, without getting too detailed, allow me to theorize that the way Adobe has been doing business all these years ain’t exactly broke! I know in my case, and in the world I live in surrounded by boatloads of professional photographers, designers, art directors and countelss other creative professionals, the norm has been to kick up anywhere from $150 to $200 every couple of years for the privilege of remaining ‘current’ with what Adobe deems necessary. And that’s fine. Even when the updates for things like CS2 and CS4 were pretty much useless, we still paid the toll, cuz that’s what you do. And so when Apple would update their OS, you knew that Adobe’s products would also be in synch with the newest, bestest and fastest. But you had the choice to upgrade. And should you decide to skip an upgrade because it didn’t fit your workflow, that was YOUR decision, not Adobe’s. With this new subscription scheme, Adobe is forcing you to not only stay ‘upgraded’, but to pay WAY more than double for the service! Assuming you paid for each upgrade to Photoshop every two years when it was released, at the current price it would set you back $200.00. Under the subscription scheme, it’s gonna be $20/month….in case your math skills are a bit dodgy, that’s $480.00 every two years. And I could give a rip if you’re making Richard Avedon kind of money, in what Universe does it make sense to overnight go from $200.00 to $480.00 as an accepted cost of doing business?!! And I can’t even get into the logistical aspect of cloud-based subscriptions, because Adobe hasn’t told anybody how this is all gonna work. Will you download a time-limited app that shuts off if your dues are not paid? What happens if you DO pay in time but Adobe’s server fuçks up and shuts you down by mistake on the night of a major processing job??? And probably most important…assuming we all march over the cliff like a bunch of Goddamned lemmings and pay into this cloud scheme…but down the road, for WHATEVER reason, decide to stop paying Adobe the monthly fee…..what the high-holy-hell becomes of our images that we have processed and retouched along the way?!! Without access to the Photoshop engine, how are you supposed to even LOOK at your work??? Call your Adobe rep and ask him that one, cuz I guarantee they don’t have an answer that’ll make you feel at all secure about the future of your images!

      • Brad, please allow me to revise my comment. The Creative Cloud pricing structure for the full suite of programs makes a lot of sense for professionals, ignoring the fact that when you stop paying that the software stops working.

        You’re absolutely right that the cost of Photoshop alone at $20/month makes no sense at all to anyone.

      • 64 TB of Raid Storage? How much did that cost? I don’t think you are the real Brad Trent…. A “pro” can afford it because he will pass it on to his customers.

      • but what if the ‘customers’ are not willing to pay the extra?

      • No, it’s really me.

        I just hate seeing a money grab like this go down without trying to point out the negatives. And I also hate it when companies presume that just because I’m a professional photographer, I must be lighting $100 bills on fire to amuse myself and therefore think it’s just groovy to spend my money for me! I see no value in spending $240/year to use Photoshop. I own the application now. I have have paid for upgrades as Adobe saw fit to release them since I started with version 3.0, but when they did, it sure didn’t work out to a $240 annual upgrade. But the real reason I’ve been so vocal isn’t the money Adobe is demanding, it’s their new policy of renting software instead of selling it to their customers. I don’t want to have to pay a monthly tax to Adobe until they plant me in the ground just to be able to LOOK at my work in the future, and neither should you.

      • As a print production artist, I couldn’t agree more. I work for a major TV broadcast company. My department is still on CS 5.5. I doubt very much that they’re going to turn over a credit card to be charged monthly. It doesn’t work that way in large corporations.

  9. I could never afford the CS Suite in one hit, so Creative Cloud is Awesome!! A monthly payment I can budget for and I get EVERYTHING :-D, after all the amazing software Creative Cloud is the best thing Adobe ever did.

  10. I use ps6 most on traveling and rural areas without internet connection. Adobe live in a different word. Or I do. I will miss Adobe in my Photographic travels. Lets look soon for another option.

  11. So I have Adobe installed on three computers (desktop, primary laptop and backup laptop, the desktop version gets deactivated when I travel or teach and the backup laptop gets activated — hope I can still do that, their license did not say) — plus my husband has a desktop and a laptop. So we have two licenses for five computers but only two are ever in use at once.

    So, in the past, we would pay $340 for two CS6 upgrade licenses and $180 for two LR4 upgrades ($520 for 18 months or just under $30 per month, now that same upgrade would cost me ~$100 per month, $49 times two for two licenses) — so my previous $520 every ~18 months now becomes $1800!

    And,if I understand it correctly, if, at the end of that 18 months if you do not want to upgrade (i.e. continue paying your subscription) you have nothing, you no longer have access to photoshop, not like now where some people are still using CS3, 4, 5, etc. And if you purchase a new camera then you need the updated ACR so you have to keep subscribing anyway. I know some people upgraded from CS4 to CS6 just because they shoot RAW and wanted Adobe’s ACR.

  12. Renting software is in no way better for the end user. It’s a way to make more money, plain and simple. They’re entitled to do that, and we’re entitled to not pay them.

  13. I hope Adobe comes up with some retirement system for those who want to get off of CC. Before, if your business closed up shop, ran low on money, or you just decide to use the software for personal use, you could still open all your past projects and even create new ones on whatever your current version was and would just not upgrade to the new versions. Now, you are screwed and can’t even open up projects. There is really no way to get out of CC and still access projects which is a huge deal for me. Adobe should only lock the creation of new projects if you cancel CC and not withdraw the software completely so you could still open and export old projects like say premiere projects. This is my biggest problem with CC. Also, I hope they come out with suites like before for the people who don’t need the entire collection for a reduced price of say $30. I’d love to see a Photographers version with LR, PS, Premiere (because all our DSLRs shoot video now), and maybe 1 or 2 other things. But I don’t need everything for sure.

    • Something i commented on many times (For example on John Nacks blog). As long as there’s no way to open my files after i cancel a subscription, i will not go over to a subscription model.

      To stay within scotts example: Yes, you do have to pay for MS Office. But they offer a free Reader that opens Word / PowerPoint / Excel. I think Creative Cloud apps should not completely shut down, but turn into some kind of “read only” mode which allows viewing / printing / exporting / maybe Copy (to paste somewhere else). But not editing in any way. This is something i would consider “fair”.

      • That is a super idea. I’m worried that I won’t be able to access my files or export them to another non-adobe format. I’m very grateful that we can still buy a license to Lightroom.

  14. Monthly subscriptions are going to be really difficult for some to manage. I work as a staff photographer and getting that online at work is going to be a challenge. Haven’t decided if it’s worth it for me to upgrade my home version even if it is only $10 a month.
    I see one positive thing though. Adobe has had a monopoly on photo editors for a long time. This should be the end of that, the gates will open up for competition and other options will arrive. Apple’s aperture should become the preferred option for Mac users over Lightroom. If hell freezes over and Apple releases that for windows Adobe will have problems.
    For those that are not professionals and don’t want to go this route google; “GIMP”, “Irfanview” and “Zoner”. You can get programs that probably do what you want as open source.

  15. COUNTRY LIMITATIONS

    Such a good Q&A, Scott. Thanks!

    BUT… oh my. I live in Greenland, and apparently we can’t buy Creative Cloud for individuals. Lovely, isn’t it?

    I even changed my country address to Denmark, because technically we’re not an independent state. But that does not work either – probably because Adobe reads my registration IP address or something…

    Adobe does not seem to want to answer my question about Greenland availability – I just get generic replies with no real info.

    Can anyone here tell my why there are restrictions like this? This actually means that I will be stuck on CS5 for an indefinite amount of time. :/

  16. I think in about two years you will see the cloud subscription thing go the way of the dodo. I can afford the $50 a month for Adobe, but when I add Microsoft, and all of the other software programs that I use that $50 a month turns into over $1000 a month. I’ve already dumped one program that I have been used and upgraded on a regular basis since the early 90’s, and will be dumping a number of others as I find other alternatives. This move to the cloud by Adobe could be the best thing that ever happened to Corel – as long as they don’t trip over their own feet. Something that they have a habit of doing.

  17. Question: There are two version of Photoshop. The full/basic version and the extended version. Only the extended version has the 3D tools and other extended tools. With CC, is there now only one version? Or are there two versions similar to the boxed version of CS6? Because I have CS6 (non-extended version), I can get the $10/month for the first year. Maybe this is not such a bad deal because I get all the new features and I get upgraded to the extended version.

    • Yes – there will be only one version of PS CC. It will include the 3D features. When you do the math, at $20 a month (ignoring the initial $10 a month upgrade), it works out to about the same as the upgrade price for PS CS6 Extended (based on an 18 month product lifecycle).

      • but charles, most casual / hobbiest photographers weren’t using extended and don’t have the need… basically at $20 you are nearly doubling the $11 per month upgrade cost of getting EVERY new version ($200 per 18 months) and quadrupling the cost of getting every other new version $200 per 36 months).

  18. Does my Adobe discount I get through NAPP work on the Cloud? If so, then Photoshop would only be about $7.50/mo.

    • No, it doesn’t. I asked Adobe specifically this question yesterday. Suddenly my NAPP membership is much less valuable now as getting 15% off my Photoshop upgrades helped justify my membership…

  19. My biggest issue with this whole subscription model is that as an amature, even at $20 a month (forget about the $10/month, that goes away after a year) it’s still largely out of my price range. I only upgrade my Photoshop version every 2 or three releases. There’s no need for me to continually upgrade with every new release, nor can I afford to.

    My last upgrade cost me $199, and that was to go from CS3 to CS6. I bought CS3 in 2009, so it lasted me 3 years. That works out to $5.53 a month over the life of the software. I don’t need the latest and greatest Photoshop features immediately when they’re released, I only upgrade when I deem it necessary and have some extra cash available. To pay $20 a month is WAY out of my price range. Even $15 a month would be beyond my reach. I would maybe consider $15 a month for Photoshop and LR, as I do use LR also. My bigger issue is that I also use Dreamweaver on occasion, but I upgrade that even less frequently than I do Photoshop. I don’t use any other Adobe products, so the full CC doesn’t even remotely make sense for me.

    I can completely understand why this model makes sense for people who make their living off of Adobe products. But as a hobbyist, it’s doing a lot to push me away from Adobe (or at least to downgrade to Photoshop Elements, assuming that will still be available as an option).

  20. Scott – this reads like it’s straight out of the Adobe PR department. Don’t get me wrong – I am a CC subscriber and it’s great for me, but for many people it’s not. Some balance would be nice.

    In all of the examples you mentioned (AutoDesk, Audible, Microsoft, iTunes Match, Amazon Prime, etc.) you have the option of owning the product. In Adobe’s case you do not. Some people just want to pay once, use it for a few years, upgrade. If they want to get new features they are forced to rent the product. That’s the difference.

    • Excellent point! To add to that, my experience with Autodesk has been that even though you still have an perpetual license, the subscription has pushed them to push out a “new” version every year whether it was ready or not which has resulted in a lower quality of product overall. Autodesk has the market cornered and can get away with it. There are other non-Adobe options out there. I guess we’ll have to wait and see how this plays out.

    • It is straight out of the Adobe PR department.

    • Don’t be surprised if that changes for them as well. Adobe is not alone in the SW world on this.

    • Scott is more or less quoting from the Adobe PR Bible, but I believe he strongly feels what he stated.

      I rent Microsoft Premium 365 and that can be obtained as low as 20% below the online cost direct from Microsoft and you have the option to purchase what you need.

      Adobe needs to reflect on the need for a true Photographer’s solution, rather than continue to be unfair to that group, the ones that probably upgraded more often than businesses using the most expensive software.

      Lets look at some facts, not myths. The CC Photoshop is Photoshop Complete and while $20 per month is fair as compared to the regular upgrade cost of PS Complete, that product still has features Photographers do not need or in most cases do not want. For that group the $20/month represents a 20% (more if you count discounts) increase in cost over previous upgrade costs. Those getting the best deal of all are new users as the cost for them is well below previous retail prices.

      My hope is for Lightroom to be come a Photographers complete solution and that it will be marketed similarly to the current Microsoft model.

      My fear is the handwriting is on the wall and Adobe will go completely to the Cloud, irrespective of the numerous security issues the Cloud represents. I certainly would not even consider using Cloud storage if I ever subscribe to CC, just as I will not use it with Microsoft. The Cloud Security Alliance puts data breaches at the top of its list because the problem will only grow, as time goes by. Security issues are real and Adobe certainly knows it.

      • I don’t follow your math.

        Standard Photoshop users used to pay around $210 to upgrade. At the fastest rate (every 18 months) that was about $140 per year. The single-app Photoshop CC subscription is $240/year (real rate, not the one-year intro). That is more than a 70% increase in price!

      • I used the bottom end of the 12 to 18 month upgrade cycle. The point is it does cost more and even new users will eventually pay more. I guess I assumed it was apparent I was using 12 months.

  21. Seems like a good deal for people who need the whole suite but a bad deal for people who just need one product. Once you get past the $10 rate, $20 a month seems way to high. As people have pointed out this will be more than double the old cost. Plus subscriptions just rub people the wrong way. Nobody wants another monthly subscription. I’d much rather pay $200 once than $10 a month for 20 months.

    Also where is the incentive for Adobe to add new features once they have you have signed up? In the past they at least had to work hard to entice you to upgrade, now they don’t have to do anything.

    I know they still have lightroom which will do what most of what amateur photographers need, but the fear will be that they will turn this in a subscription in the future as well.

  22. But Scott, what about Adobe’s motivation to create great upgrades in the future? Under the old model they had to make a killer new version every couple years that had “wow” features so they could get users to upgrade and give them more money. Now under the new model you HAVE to keep giving them money or your Photoshop goes “poof!” so where is the motivation to provide great new features that are compelling? I know you might answer the competition, but just like MS Office, Adobe knows Photoshop is so entrenched in its category they could rest on their laurels for a decade or more and still be on top…

    • It seems to me, that one of the main reasons this is all happening is the fact that the “wow years” for standalone Photoshop (and probably other apps in the family) are over. There’s simply nothing groundbreaking for single app photoshop on the horizon – it’s a new feature here and there, but the core product “is finished” and the “new” lies in the interoperability and/with mobile devices – but how do you charge for the “stuff between the apps” and the usually low cost or even free mobile apps – hence the cloud. In other words, CS6 as standalone app is good for another 5years easily.

      The situation with Lightroom is different, it’s still sort of riding the “wow upgrade” wave, probably until version 7 I’d say, when the mobile/portable integration will be finished, hopefully with some performance optimization (e.g. all lens corrections will utilize all cpu cores available and not just one, smart previews or some kind of draft mode will allow faster processing for huge raw files, etc.)

      So I understand why Adobe has to change something, and users might not like it now, but there’s also no rush jumping to cloud because of one app at the moment, it’ll sort itself out in a year or two.

      • >> the core product “is finished” and the “new” lies in the interoperability and/with mobile devices <<
        Simply NOT true. We have plenty of wow…

      • If that’s the case Daniel, how come the only ‘wow’ (sic) feature in CC is anti camera shake?

        You’d definitely get more people upgrading if there was a genuinely great new feature.

  23. case scenario: I work for a video project for 4 months, I use Ps, Premiere and Motion, I pay around 200$.. wow that’s very cheap compared to the CS Production Premium!

    well, here is the problem: when I stop renting the software I stop to be able to OPEN the project, what is done is done, I can’t fix a typo in a name! sure I can pay for another month and fix the typo.

    even more scary: I want to be able to access my Library in Lightroom? I’ll have to pay the subscription to Adobe forever..

    No thanks.

  24. Change?

    I’ve been a sole proprietor, self employed professional photographer for 38 years. I’ve seen just a little bit of change in that time. All change is NOT for the better.

    Price?

    Price, within reason has never been an issue for me if the investment I make can offer a positive impact upon my bottom line.

    My problem with the “change” that was thrust upon on us yesterday is that I have an issue with a licensing model that is more akin to a bus pass than the outright purchase of a tool. … a bus pass that cost more than paying on a per-ride basis for a bus that never takes you on a route close to your destination and you either have to walk or hire a taxi to complete the trip. Then if your bus pass ever expires … you are left stranded wherever you happen to be at the time and no means to call for assistance.

    Sure receiving new features in a more timely fashion is quite nice … of course if those new features are frivolous, inconsequential enhancements that will have no influence on your profit margin … how important is the scheduling for their inclusion?

    After 20 years … I think I am done with Adobe products (and by extension NAPP) … not because of any misconceptions or misunderstandings about CC … but because no software developer is so good that I will commit to a mortgage in perpetuity to use their wares, then when we part the ways, I still have no home.

    • Another thing to keep in mind here, and I mean no disrespect to you Mr. Kelby as I have enjoyed your tutorials, but NAPP and Scott Kelby endorsing Adobe is much like Colonel Sanders endorsing KFC. Of course someone who works for Adobe isn’t going to have a critical opinion.

      • Scott works for Scott Kelby, not Adobe. There is a relationship, of course, but it’s not that direct.

      • Of course, but let’s be real. He gets a lot of perks and has a lot of friendships at Adobe. We all get bought one way or another, that’s just life. Let’s just not pretend it’s something else, and just say it like it is.

      • There is a difference between being bought and selling out!

      • I highly doubt that…I think anyone can agree that it’s hard for Scott to have an objective opinion on anything dealing with Adobe. Part of his job is to help promote the brand, so of course he will have nothing but nice things to say about the Creative Cloud.

      • Err – photoshop user magazine? Photoshop seminar tour?

        If people do stop using photoshop they stop buying his magazines and stop attending his seminars!

        Its in his direct commercial interest to keep people buying Adobe, and I’d be worried too if I was him

      • Are you kidding?

      • Just an opinion…

        So when Scott uses his relationship to get thousands of people access to betas of Photoshops its cool..

        When Adobe announces a price increase and he goes out and make a public letter to Adobe – putting himself out there and advocating for users he’s a good guy (not too long ago too.. what.. 2011 ? http://bit.ly/11fSrJE )

        He’s a good guy there.. and totally respected right. But when the man gives his opinion on what he likes as a ‘Creative’ a dude who uses more than 1 application – he’s a shill, he’s bought, and a sell out.

        How much respect do you -actually- have of a person when that respect’s thrown under the bus because you’re pissed off at someone else’s announcement

        Thats my friend you’re talking about. Disagree, but don’t be stupid about it.

      • Well said RC. My gut is that a high percentage of the people drinking the haterade are not serious professionals and / or are the same people that have had no issues stealing Adobe products in the past. Just saying.

      • Perhaps you should heed RC’s last seven words instead of adding fuel to the fire.

      • You’re entitled to your opinion Butch, as am I. Simple solution is—don’t buy it, and find a solution that suits you better. Done.

      • It’s not your opinion I find troubling … it’s your presentation.

      • Alan, you are ignoring your last words in your post, despite how you stated it, it comes off as a inappropriate and highly unprofessional accusation.

      • Don’t stupid about being stupid! In the context of the comments that have been made…RC’s last 7 words are without gravity…..

      • This will still be easy to pirate. People who are haterade operates a business and sees this as a big variable overhead in their operating ratio.

      • So let me get this right. You are saying, Not liking something is paramount to dishonesty.

      • Alan if you think this is going to “curb” piracy or that the people who are complaining are the ones who steal their copies then I’ve got a (adobe)bridge to sell you. Hahaha!

        Think about it man, people who STEAL their copies are going to be unaffected and could care less WHAT the price is or will be, because, say it with me now, THEY STEAL IT! sheesh. use a little common sense.

      • I was in Shanghai last week and saw CC for sale aim different language for 50 yuan.

      • Speak for yourself Alan. I’ve NEVER stolen an Adobe product license and have been in the photo retouching business since 1999. Half of that time has also been a PAYING NAPP member. This forced Adobe renting model is a hustle and a big rip off for folks like us who work on our own and support families.

      • Totally inappropriate to suggest people disagreeing are those who would have no issues stealing Adobe Products; present or past.

        “I” know of no serious professional who would indiscriminately post such a remark.

      • Looking elsewhere

        I am a “serious” professional photographer using CS5. I only upgrade every 2nd version because of the cost associated and the fact that, while one thing is serving my purposes (with nothing astonishingly new to make my life easier) I am not in the habit of wasting money just to be up with the ‘in’ crowd.

        I also do not like to be forced into a position that doesn’t suit me. I like choice. If, as has been suggested earlier, Adobe chooses to move completely toward the CC for new software and not update past LR4 and CS6, I will start my search for alternative editing software now so that the transition will be smooth when I move away from Adobe. Just as I’m starting to replace my all Apple products home and business because I’m unhappy that they have forgotten they are there to serve the consumer and not the other way around.

        As a reasonably intelligent person, I am also aware of the bias a person or group may show toward a particular product or service because of their individual circumstances. For this reason, I believe the Kelby team have to be seen to promote the positives in the direction Adobe has chosen for their business. I don’t think any less of them because I understand they have no choice but I guess this makes me one of the people you accuse of “drinking the haterade”.

        And as for your accusation that anyone who dares to have a less than glowing opinion of this model of software licensing, is a thief, let me assure you that I have NEVER stolen software. I find it offensive that you make such generalisations.

        However, I will make an assumption of my own here and believe that you included that statement about theft because, like some others, it underpins the reason that Adobe wants to move to this model for licensing. $240 a year for Photoshop with all it’s updates immediately – not bad. So tell me, why are we paying $1062 (Australian) for CS6 now? (The CC still needs administration and maintenance which have to be paid for which is probably commensurate with the admin of providing the facilities to download the software from the Adobe site to own.)

        If Adobe can afford to charge such a small amount, comparatively, for the software use on CC, maybe they should consider making ownership of the product more affordable and maybe people wouldn’t be stealing it in the first place. I do not condone stealing either. I don’t have any problem with people making money but this price disparity really speaks of profiteering and greed to me and it will only be a matter of time before people vote with their feet.

        Adobe is one company in a sea of potential others. The one that actually listens to what the consumer wants and puts this above their own greed, arrogance and ego, will be the one that wins my business.

      • Yes Alan, the people that acquire Adobe’s software for free are highly irate with their new business model and are flooding forums and blogs with their displeasure. ಠ_ಠ

        Hahahahahaaha are you serious? Maybe you should think before you marginalize everyone’s comment by indirectly accusing them of theft…. just sayin.

      • Err maybe because he is now advocating for a doubling of the cost of photoshop?

        As in he is now taking the exact opposite position – so people have the opposite opinion – seems pretty simple to me…

      • Ok, well I was only a napp member for 1 year and I really don’t know all that much about Mr. Kelby. I honestly thought napp and Adobe were connected. I’m a photographer not a designer so napp really didn’t offer a lot of things that benefited me.
        Either way this is a great deal for Adobe, not it’s users. I understand that as a CS6 user I can subscribe for $9.99 a month. But I have to consider that 90% of work is done in camera raw and I use photo mechanic(a program far superior to bridge) for browsing and captioning. I recently got CS6 but I’ve been upgrading every 2-3 years since I started using photoshop at version 3(I think, it was around 98). Even at $9.99/$120 a year that’s a good bit more.
        Another issue I have is I’m a staff photographer, not self employed. So I have to make the case I need a monthly subscription. The bean counters are not going to do it that way. I am in hopes there will be a way to pay once yearly.

      • You know what I feel bad about? I feel bad that you guys are now in the position that you’re forced to defend Adobe’s pricing model. Of course Scott took that position. This is how you guys make your living, so there’s no doubt it’s the position that you have to take. Last night I read basically the same post over on Kloskowski’s blog as well and now you, RC are in the same boat.

        I have a lot of respect for you guys. But look at the position that Adobe has put you in. Do you really want to be having this conversation at all? I expect that the answer is “of course you don’t”. Who would? Heck, I don’t even want to be having this conversation.

        So here’s the deal. No doubt there’s a big group of people that this new model works out well for. I get that and congratulations. But it’s also true that this new model hurts others also.

        I, for one, don’t earn my living at this; I guess I’m a high-end enthusiast. The first version of Photoshop that I purchased was version 2.5 way back in 1993. Since then I’ve been upgrading along the way. Not every version, mind you, because I’ve skipped a few, but it’s something on the order of 9 or 10 versions over 20 years. So I’m heavily invested in the company and the platform. Not as heavily as you guys, of course, but there’s certainly a long history of loyalty to the product. I love the product and have for a long time.

        But I don’t use all of those other programs that are in CC. So even though it helps some people, my cost is going to approximately double, even after the cheapo first year is considered. That’s just the math for me.

        Having said all that; I’m not happy about this at all, but it’s really not about the money. Prices generally go up; it’s the way of things. But to me it’s more about the principal.

        If I do decide to subscribe what then? This looks like a forever deal to me. Why would I want to sign a forever deal? What happens to my images if I do? Say I do it for 2 or 3 years and then I can’t do it any more, for whatever reason (get sick or lose my job or whatever)? With the previous licensing model then I know what happens. I get frozen at the level and feature set that I currently have and I can take some time to figure out what to do with my image library. But the new model is what? How do I even sew up my existing library and do anything with it if I can’t save/modify/manipulate/open the file sets any longer? There’s no way to know what that path might look like because it’s not charted. Will my current CS6 open them or not? Who’s to know? There’s no exit strategy. Which I believe is exactly Adobe’s goal. There IS no exit strategy. THAT’S the strategy.

        And that’s what pisses me off.

        (Did I mention that I make my living as a software engineer? I’m very familiar with licensing.)

        Everybody wants into my pocket for infinite payments now. And as was mentioned elsewhere, Microsoft and a whole bunch of other companies are licking their chops to see how this turns out. Maybe they want infinite never-ending payments, too. Do we really want to sign up for Death-By-A-Thousand-Paper-Cuts?

        I’m not sure that I want to buy into this. And I’m afraid that Kelby Training and NAPP may just be collateral damage.

        I haven’t decided yet.

        Still can’t believe that it doesn’t tweak you guys that Adobe put you in this position.

        You don’t have to answer that. I know you can’t.

      • Carlos Causillas

        The way I se it, Scott and RC, plus many other full time professionals will not mind this for reasons Scott mentions above. I can see their point; it just does not work for me as I am not to their level. I do not use PS as much as I used to after Lightroom came out. So for me, having to pay a monthly fee for PS does not make sense. I will keep CS5 and maybe upgrade to CS6, but that is it.

        Based on my current use patterns the thing that really worries me the most is Mr. Bryan O’Neil Hughes (Senior Product Manager for Photoshop) reply during an interview yesterday where a question around Lightroom came up. See below for the question on response

        “What assurances can our readers have that Lightroom will not become a subscription-only option?

        [Bryan O’Neil Hughes] Lightroom is for photographers. And the Lightroom team is very aware of the reaction by photographers to Photoshop CC. We don’t have plans to make Lightroom a subscription-only option but we do envision added functionality for the CC version of Lightroom.”

        I read this as saying the best tools for Lightroom will only be part of the CC subscription. Unfortunate for sure, I am really hoping this will open the road for other software companies to improve their Lightroom like offerings or coming with something even better by a significant margin.

        I know Adobe is in business to make money and in today’s world their approach is hardly unique. The change just does not work for me.
        Thanks
        Carlos Causillas

      • Greg,

        FWIW, I thought Matt K’s blog was better written and actually addressed the issues we photographer’s-only are facing and he suggested that staying with Lightroom & PS may be the best answer for us.

        I had been thinking of by-passing LR5, but the CC-only PS method of distribution may change that thinking.

        John

      • I fully agree with you, Greg.

      • You’re assuming it doesn’t tweak them. They might feel the same way you do but don’t wish to say publicly (who knows what they’ve said to Adobe privately?). You can’t blame them for that. Equally, they haven’t come out and said this is all wonderful, Scott is simply trying to clear up a few misconceptions so people can form their own opinion on it based on more accurate information. That’s helpful.

        I’ve seen a LOT of comments to the effect that Photoshop will cost £50 a month now. That sort of misconception will get anyone angry. Scott Kelby isn’t the problem, if there is a problem at all.

      • RC–it is really unfortunate that the discussion is getting so virulent. But expect it to get worse before it gets better. Personally, I will not *lease* P/S improvements, and I don’t think that Scott is being thrown under the bus to expect him and all the Kelby Media Group guys to be in the forefront of objecting to this predatory self-serving pricing on the part of Adobe. . I owe all my progress in LR and P/S to you, Matt, Cory and Scott. I am greatly appreciative. But you guys have to be concerned about the impact on your own products. If I am one of thousands who are left with LR4 and CS6, with no future upgrades, what will be the impact on future book sales, Kelby-Online Training subscriptions, NAPP membership, and PSW attendance?

      • Clearly we will be refugees. I am a leapfrogger, there was little in CS6
        to appeal to me. I too, tried napp one year and found it very over
        priced, even at the discounted point. So I guess I will be using CS5 and LR4 for the duration. Comparing the CC to Amazon Prime is just silly. Hopefully this will inspire a new round of innovation and alternatives. This shift may well be where we see the market divided into the Pros and the people who do photography for pleasure. You are going to loose the aging boomers right away. With no revenue stream these fees are hard to justify. In the future to get back customers they may try to sweeten the deal by making Scott bend over and include a subscrip to napp or something. But that is like getting free lens tissue with your micro cloth. Adobe has an opportunity to address this in an imaginative way by using Adobe TV (still free, cross your fingers!) and making the pricing more appealing to more people. ~TEU

      • Where on earth are you getting that people disrespect Scott, because of disagreement. Friends often disagree and professionals often disagree. So what else in this world is new RC?
        Adobe does need to look at the fact, not myth, that Photographers need a different solution than that being offered at this time. $20/month is a cost increase for Photographers that do not need every tool PS Complete has to offer (based on previous upgrade costs) and the Cloud has more security issues than some seem to want to discuss.
        But the bottom line is there is a need for a “real” solution for Photographers and Lightroom sold on a model similar to that Microsoft and others use now would be a good solution. Future Lightroom updates should not be tied to the cloud. And yes I do understand I am not forced to store in the cloud and I would not.

      • RC, two things are clear to me in Scott’s post. One is that he cares about the users, and I believe there is a greater percent of NAPP users that are affected by this decision than the percent of Adobe users. So it is significant, and I feel, as he mentioned very softly, that he tried to suggest to Adobe not to do that, at least the way they did.
        And second, that as a creative company using Adobe products, the new sales model really makes some sense for NAPP. Maybe users that are hurt, and they are, would expect some kind of saviour, rescuer.
        I’m sorry but this decision was already made, and no matter what, Adobe will continue with that. The only way it will revert is by the free market, and if it happens, then we will avoid Adobe as hell. Otherwise they will have their gains with their followers and it will be enough.
        Some strange surprises comes from people, Office 2013, Facebook Home, Orkut and many many others. We got to wait now.
        The only one to blame is Adobe itself.

    • Agreed. Been a member for many years. This is sick.

  25. You are absolutely right about all the misinformation. I did read someone’s blog a while back (can’t remember who) about being somewhere disconnected when PS wanted to phone home and caused some issues. Hopefully, that’s been improved – sounds like it. I actually read yesterday the annual subscription can go 180 days or so. Ms Kost maybe? Or the Lightroom Queen? 99 days or 180, it seems reasonable.

    Anyway, in terms of cost, I’ve been paying $200 every 18 months or so to upgrade (minus a great NAPP discount). At $20 a month, that’s $360 over the same period. Not such a good deal. Were my photography business going gangbusters and not a part-time activity, that wouldn’t be as tough to swallow. The regular expense also has some benefits for a business – the same reason many businesses lease vehicles rather than buy them. But that’s an 80% uplift, and I believe the focus on the cost by the community of amateurs and semi-professionals is understandable. $20 for both PS and LR would make it closer to revenue neutral, and that’s why that number is bandied about as acceptable by many photographers.
    Merging the Extended features in will help. (And any word on a NAPP discount for CC?)
    Tony

  26. For people that always buy the newest version, paying a monthly fee to rent the software might be a good deal. But for people like me who skip versions of software because there isn’t enough value added with each version to justify the upgrade, it’s not much of a deal. I have no interest in renting my software. It’s a way for the companies to make more money, plain and simple. And they can do that, it’s their right. But it’s not a good deal for the average consumer, whether it’s Adobe or Microsoft, it’s a good deal for increasing profits.

  27. It looks like my last version of Photoshop will be CS6. I don’t rent software and can’t justify the cost of $240/year for Ps. I’ve upgraded every other year in the past, making it about $100/year. Just last year Adobe said that upgrades must be every year or you must pay the ‘new’ price. So I just lowered my expectations to upgrade every 3 or 4 years. Less than 1 year later CS is dead and you must rent the software. Stop paying rent, stop using the files created with the software.

    Sorry, as an amateur photographer who uses Ps to create great photos for display and competition, renting software is outside my comfort zone.

    And it looks like a lot of people will be dropping from future Ps upgrades, stopping at CS 6. I guess I’ll just keep a disk set aside to run CS 6 when Apple upgrades the OS and it stops running, like I keep a disk for the older PPC apps that don’t have current versions.

    If Photoshop User Magazine only talks about the Cloud version of Ps and what it can do and stops talking about CS 6, I guess my membership in PSU will drop as well.

    Sad really.

    David

    • You could always switch and use Photoshop Elements.

      • Let them eat cake eh?

        Do you work for Adobe or something? That’s their standard answer to those comments too, and you’ve made it multiple times now…

      • Is it not true? It’s an option that Scott really didn’t mention in his post.

      • No because if elements would work for him he’d be using it now!

        Why do you think he spent 6 times the price to buy the full photoshop in the first place???

        Seriously…

      • Maybe when he evaluated Elements so many years ago it didn’t have the features he needed, but like everything else Elements has evolved, If you are looking for an alternative to Photoshop because you don’t like the new price it’s worth giving Elements another chance. It would be easier to transition to Elements than it would be say Corel Photo Paint.

      • My wife has the current Elements came with something or other, its not got all the facilities of Photoshop I use, in other words Elements is useless.

      • There’s a point you’re seriously ignoring lvthunder. Why should I be loyal to a company that has done this, The loyal customers that have always supported Adobe are being completely taken advantage of in this deal all so Adobe can increase their profit margin. For the pro this is probably not that big of a deal since they can write off expenses like this from their taxes but for the hobbyist/semi-pro wanting to go pro this is out of the range of possibility. The other part of this that I’ve seen very little attention paid to, is that once you “try” the CC model. You’re done, you can’t access your files if you opt out. The software just no longer functions. Subscription software is a terrible model, speaking as a Software Developer and user of a couple of these types of models (Kaspersky) for one. Support is horrible, reliance on the internet, and ultimately at their mercy. If I wanted to rent, I would rent, I don’t I want to buy.

      • I’m not saying be loyal to Adobe. You have to be loyal to yourself. OK you don’t want to be on a subscription plan. You have a limited number of choices. You can do nothing and use the version of Photoshop you have until it no longer runs (or Adobe caves and comes out with CS7). You can switch to a program that was written by the same people and won’t take nearly as long to learn (Elements). You can switch to another product and learn some other tool. If you pick the last option how much time are you going to use to learn the new software? How much are you going to be frustrated when there is something you can’t figure out how to do, but you have already done it a million times in Photoshop? I also don’t feel that Adobe is taking advantage of anyone. i think $20 a month is a fair price for what you get.

      • Adobe is taking away freedom. If I want to own, I can’t. They will only “allow” me to rent. That is unamerican. That is anti-freedom. That slaps the customer in the face. It really is as simple as that.

      • How about Corel?

      • Any chance you can STOP saying “you could always use Elements”?

  28. The irony of the matter is that it’ll probably just drive more people to piracy. I have little doubt the warez community will have a cracked version of Photoshop CC available online within a couple weeks of its release, and I’m sure a lot of folks will take to that.

    Me, I guess I’m stuck with CS6 forever. In the past I would get my copies of Photoshop as “Thank Yous” from an Adobe employee I know (in exchange for photo services). Looks like that option’s out the window now. Thank god Lightroom is still gonna be available independently.

    • Quote from Winston Hendrickson, VP of Creative Solutions, Adobe Systems, Inc.

      “We don’t have plans to make Lightroom a subscription-only option but we do envision added functionality for the CC version of Lightroom.”

      I don’t like the sound of that. So we have to pay for CC or get a dumbed down version of Lightroom?

      Lightroom Elements anyone?

      • I’m hoping they’re just referring to the functionality that comes with being intrinsically linked with other apps, or perhaps the cloud-based features (like backed up / synced settings) that a standalone Lightroom wouldn’t have, thus keeping the app the same regardless of delivery method.

  29. Hey Scott,

    Thanks for your QA on this subject! I love your QA sessions.:-) I do have a question for you that I’m a tad confused on. I just did the $10.00 CC for Photoshop only, but it didn’t update my previously owned CS 6 to the CC version. So, did I get the latest version and updates? Also, if i decided to stop the subscription, will my purchased CS 6 still work? I know there are a lot of things and questions about all this change. Thanks for taking the time to answer some of them.

    Dennis

  30. Scott – thanks as always for the level-headed evaluation of Adobe’s changes.

    I guess the one thing I’d want to see is lower pricing beyond the first year for current users of PS. The initial $10/month is definitely enticing, but the incentive tends to be lost after the first year….unless there’s still a NAPP discount. Any chance that the NAPP folks could persuade Adobe in this direction?

  31. Scott

    I could be wrong here but it looks like the Aussie prices are the same as the US prices. If thats correct, Awesome!!!

  32. In this day and age I think we are all accustomed to change and adapt pretty well, but doubling our out of pocket cost is just not acceptable. Most of us have been registered users paying the upgrade price every 18 to 24 months at about $199.00 (PS only), so after the first years $10.00 a month bait and switch we’re at $360 to $480 out of pocket for that same time period. As a Photoshop and Lightroom user only I guess I’ll be sticking to CS6 until Adobe comes up with a pricing solution that is fair to it’s loyal users. I love change but not when it doubles my out of pocket cost and Adobe is definitely not doubling the value of their product by any means.

    • Actually, since Photoshop CC is equivalent to the Extended version now, the upgrade cost for that would have been $399.00 using the pre-cloud pricing ($199.00 was for Photoshop CSx Standard), which works out to $16.63/month over 2 years. Based on my calculations, the actual price increase works out to $40.32/year. I know that more $$$ is still bad, but perhaps not as substantial when you consider what you are getting for the cost.

      • Tim, you are correct however I personally have no interest in the Extended version and the added features it offers. So as a user only interested in PS standard and the features it offers I would be forced to pay $40.32/year above what Extended version users are currently paying and for features I have no use for. As a passionate hobbyist photographer paying $240.00 a year for Photoshop is just not feasible. I will be sticking to CS6 as long as possible and then look forward to what kind of products the competitors will offer. It’s a shame because I have been a huge fan of adobe PS and their products for so long.

      • Look at Elements. It probably does everything you do anyways.

      • Ivthunder, I’m am aware of what Elements capabilities are and it doesn’t come close to doing what I need and use in PS. I just have no use for the 3D stuff in PS Extended.

      • I was just typing the same thing for lvthunder. Looks like a troll putting the same thing on every post that is unhappy. Those of us unhappy with this “blackmail” pricing structure are unhappy because we want to have the full version of photoshop and have the OPTION to not upgrade if we choose not to, or can’t afford to…now we must upgrade to continue to use the program we purchased in the first place. if they want to push CC that is their option but please give us the option to pay upfront for the stand-alone software and give us the choice how we spend out money. if they can’t make stand-alone software profitable then raise the price and the market will sort itself out.
        Once I phase out of photoshop the sad thing is that the plugins and training software I enjoy using will be useless. #AShame

      • There is no way Elements would work for me, the last piece I did had some place in the region of 2-300 layers. I like many others do not buy every version of Photoshop just the odd numbers. I am now going to download a copy of The Gimp to see how well it does the job, I was put off learning another bit of software I just want to create. That being said I can get by for a good while yet on CS5 unless the next OS is not compatible. I also do not like the have to be on line every so often malarkey, I sometimes travel with no internet connection for 6-8 wks well what I am mullered if I cant use Photoshop, it will be just great for those that live in the middle of no place ie places with no internet parts of Africa and Asia.

        There is a good business opportunity for some one to create a make Gimp work just like Photoshop plug in scripty thing though!

  33. As a hobbyist, I just don’t buy it (pun intended). It’s one thing to BUY a license to use something perpetually, its another to RENT a license just to USE the software.

    You can fiddle with the numbers all you want – but I already have a dozen ‘monthly’ technology payments that I’m trying to cut and I’m not going to add to that just for software that is arguably optional in my photography.

    All Adobe has done is completely abandon the home user, hobbyist/photographer. You can bet that the next big thing that comes along that can replace Photoshop in my workflow (Photoline? Pixelmator?) will get my purchase.

    I’m sure this makes sense for the company, us hobbyist users probably don’t represent any significant percentage of sales revenue – but what I don’t think they measured was the impact to the Adobe ‘ecosystem’. I’m much less likely to invest in *anything* Adobe since I’m now worried about being pressured into a monthly rental payment. Even if LR5 is not a rental, I’m going to be leery LR6 will be. Aperture, DxO, CaptureOne most likely will all benefit in the long run.

    • I totally agree with you about the buy vs rent, and can’t see a lot of hobbyists liking this model, but I can’t say Adobe has totally abandoned the home user or hobbyist. They still sell Elements, and it doesn’t look like it’s going to the Cloud. Elements is made for the home user. And they’ve been adding more and more Photoshop features to it every year. Sure, there are things you can’t do, but there are a lot of things you can. Most of the differences are things that are mostly used for graphic design, not photography (more control over layer styles, 3D, etc.). If you had the standard version of PS, rather than extended, they are even more similar. And if you’re using Lightroom, as I am, you have the full features of Camera Raw (since Elements doesn’t have nearly as much available in its version of Camera Raw). Just a thought.

      • To a degree I would agree with your statement on Elements. However the last time I checked there were too many missing features in Elements (I think there were some adjustment layers missing) that make Elements significantly less useful (although not completely).

        I still think that the bigger picture is how this will segregate the products from the home/hobbyist market. Some budding photographers may be fine initially paying the $50/mo – but every photographer I know (myself included) will have their interests wax and wane over time, at some point I believe most will look at that $50/mo and think its an awfully significant price to pay just to use the software.

        I think the CC model is a great boon to the true professional market, I really do. It opens up the products and puts them into the reach of more small businesses. But taking an axe to perpetual licenses is extremely harsh. As a consumer it actually feels offensive. With software I make an investment and I will make another one when my ability to purchase and needs (for new features) intersect. I do the same with my hardware, there is no way I’m going to pay Nikon or Fujifilm 3%/month to rent my cameras – even if they replaced them with upgraded models every year. Renting products (regardless of hardware or software) is NOT an investment, it’s strictly a service, one that you expect to terminate in the future (do you really expect to spend $20/mo or $50/mo for the remainder of your life on Adobe?). I want the things I spend my money on to not contain an expiration date, I realize in software world this is disingenuous because at some point old software use is not feasible, but I can easily say for big purchases I can get 5+ years out of them even if it means resorting to use VMWare to run old software. It’s just the point about ownership (of a perpetual license) versus temporary usage, no marketing speak is going to change this.

        I also dislike this from the marketplace perspective. The best manufacturer should reap the rewards. My (future) dollars are always up for grabs and then company that provides the best product(s) will get them. Renting a product does much less to reward that manufacturer, because it is highly unlikely I will stop renting due to the fact I can no longer use the software – I’ve become jailed to the product, no thanks!

  34. As was said earlier by an anonymous guest… this is straight out of Adobe PR :)

    This is not a good deal for amateurs no more than leasing a vehicle is. There are times when it makes sense to rent/lease but the vast majority of people purchase their software, cars, etc. They appear to be saying by this that amateurs no longer matter.

    As has been mentioned by others Apple has truly disrupted the way that software is sold and distributed. When is the last time that you upgraded your Microsoft operating system for $19.99? Without getting into the Final Cut Pro X jihads, they released a product that works for an amazing amount of amateurs and professionals for a fraction of what the previous version cost AND are able to provide timely and free upgrades. Sounds like Creative Cloud… only better to me.

    And finally, I am hesitant to put all of my work in the cloud because when you get down to it, clouds are just a bunch of vapor. I want to own my software. I know that sounds old fashioned.

    Adobe, Get off of my lawn!! :)

  35. I’m barely a “casual” user of CS6 and LR4. There’s no way I’m going to subscribe to anything with this arrangement. I’ll stick with what I’ve got. Unfortunately, it makes me think that by the time my NAPP membership is up for renewal all the info will be for stuff I’m not going to be working with anyway.

  36. As always, a level headed perspective! I LOVE it. Thank you for sharing. You are my favorite. Happy Tuesday Scott.

  37. Random thoughts:

    For me this is simply a price increase. As an upgrader I’ve been paying $180 to $200 every 18 months or so compared to $240 per year. Plus I had the option to delay or skip a new version if I wanted to. Comparing the full $700 price of PS to a $20 monthly cost is irrelevant for me.

    As an amateur photographer I may or may not benefit from earlier access to new features aimed at design professionals so I don’t see this as a compelling benefit for me.

    I probably will continue to use CS6 as long as it will run on my Mac and support the plugins I use. When CS6 will no longer run I’ll probably look at Elements or more likely some of the new competing editors that have been released lately.

    I also hope that Adobe will continue to move Lightroom forward reducing my need for Photoshop entirely.

    I think Adobe WILL change their minds about this and modify this strategy in the next 12 to 18 months once the bean counters tote up the numbers.

    This has left a bad taste in my mouth.

  38. I believe this is being done because Adobe had begun to approach a point of diminishing new features being available for their CS products. Hence fewer available upgrade opportunities and along with those fewer opportunities, are fewer upgrade $$ coming in. This is their only way to continue bringing in a substantial cash flow.

    I stopped using Photoshop years ago when their new versions became prohibitively high priced to make them a viable option. As a lone photographer (and Aperture user), I have found many excellent options that more than make up for any perceived need for Photoshop. Between Aperture, NIK plugins & stand alone software, some OnOne plug ins and a free copy of Elements that come with my tablet, I haven’t missed and really see no need for Photoshop. It’s clear Adobe is not interested in the individual photographer and that’s fine with me. I just see this as a huge mistake for them in the long run. In an age of tight margins and stiff competition among creatives, squeezing $250-1800/month out of them seems a bit steep to justify.

    I predict, many will move to competitors who now have an open door to a pretty large base of potential customers.

  39. Here in Germany they want 33 Dollars per Month, just for Photoshop. Bye Bye Adobe…

    • It’s not just $33 per month. It is that FOR LIFE, if you ever want to keep access to your files even during your retirement years where you hopefully want to enjoy your photography.

  40. You put Adobe in the company of companies like AutoDesk, but what is really happening is that Adobe (like AutoDesk) is becoming very customer unfriendly. They seem to only want a small group of well-heeled customers, forcing many of us out of the market for Adobe products. I may not be able to find it, but I’m looking for an alternative.

  41. Thanks for clearing up a lot of questions Scott. You have addressed a lot of concerns without using a lot of marketing speak and debunked many rumors out there.

  42. Scott, I think highly of you so don’t take this wrong but I would also expect you to come out in favor of CC. Its your livelihood. You make money off training so you would embrace anything Adobe does.
    I’m at odds because even at $120 a year thats only for one year and then it goes up – every year. I’m an occasional user of Ps so I buy every second or third version. With the cloud I’m buying it all the time. No deal for me. I’ll continue to use LR but once that goes cloud, I’m out. One thing about software, once a void is opened companies move to fill it. I’ll see what else come available. Capture One is already pretty good.
    BTW, I was about ready to pull the plug on NAPP membership but Adobe’s announcement killed that. No need since I don’t see myself being long term with Ps anymore.

  43. Two points: 1) You keep talking about $10/month for Photoshop alone. That´s only true for the first year, and I would agree that would be a fair price. But it goes up to twice that much thereafter. 2) You miss to mention that we were currently paying about $199 at every version refresh cycle. Now, it is $478/2 years, or $360/18 months, which is the usual refresh cycle. And that is more than twice as much as what we were paying until now. Is that fair? I don´t think so.

    • Not to mention Adobe can shove the price up to whatever they like in future and you have no choice but to pay or spend weeks converting all thise psd files into something readable by another program and change your entire workflow.

      How long before its $25, or $30. What am I saying – it already is outside the US…

  44. Previous upgrades worked out to be $11 per month for people who adopted EVERY new version of Photoshop ($200/18 months) and $5.50 per month for people who purchased every other version ($200/36 months). After the first year, Photoshop CC will be $20 per month. Can someone explain to me why I would want to pay so much more per month? Especially when I am using another app more in my workflow and Photoshop less? I don’t have a problem going with a cloud-based system, but it is coming at a doubling of the price and no option to skip a version. Maybe I am missing something here?

  45. Just as Kelby media lets us know what the annual charges will be: For indiv PS CC 1st year: $120 or $240. For subsequent years: $360. If you already own PS CS6 are the enhancements worth it to a non professional photographer? Lots of non pros are stating their negative feelings on other sites. Then there is LR. Adobe hasn’t commited to LR5 being included in CC yet (although John Nack has stated such). So a bundle or separate charges may be down the road. But using Scott’s rates that is still $300 per yr. (doubt it as that is lower than the PS CC only rate) Hope they decide soon as LR5 should come out of beta in a month. If you are a PS CS6 owner make sure you have an install copy around in case you never go the CC route. Adobe has been pretty good about holding down their prices in the past but their after the first year non commital rental rates may change if the projected revenues don’t make target. No one doubts the quality of Adobe software, but I prefer buying the house than renting it. As for CC storage if you choose to place your work in the Cloud you better have an internet connection to retrieve it (like keeping your music only in iTunes). Remember these rates are in place now.

    Regarding subscription software, I only use Amazon Prime as I do way more than the $89 in shipping charges. Really don’t use the features they’ve added in the past year. Now that sales taxes are being charged in CA, I will probably cut back on purchases when my annual is up.

    Next issue: If you go PS CC, how do you get Kelby written updates to the PS CC book when it comes out? The PS CS6 and LR4/5 books may become “classics”. I really expect Adobe to enhance their loyalty program by offering owner upgrades after a few years for the non pro photographer. They don’t want to support CS6 forever.

  46. First Scott, every point you make is exactly correct. I have also been using the cloud since day 1 and it has been great. There was no way I would of been able to afford getting the Master Collection the traditional way.

    Next, everyone always thinks they own softeware. No one ever owns software, if anyone ever bothered to read a EULA you would know this, when you purchase Photoshop or a Creative Suite or MS Office or anything, you are purchasing a license to use the software. Software can not be resold. If I buy a camera and a year later I decide I am done with it or photography I can sell it and get some money back, not so with software, think of it of a rental that after the new model comes out you never get anything new.

    With regards to Autodesk, I use their software daily as well. They have a traditional model of purchasing a license or you can also get a subscription, but with them there is a HUGE catch. With the subscription you have to first purchase the license of the software at full retail price and then pay anywhere from $200-$1000 a year in subscription fees on top of it. This then entities you to a new release of the software every year. You get the double whammy from them but that has been their model for years now and no one in the design industry complains this much, and trust me their programs start in the $3000 range and only go up from there!

    Amateurs, if you are just getting into it, why not drive to your local Staples and pick up a copy of Photoshop Elements for about $100 it will probably do everything you need it to do anyways!

    Lastly, for all the people complaining about additional costs you would have to pay to “rent” software I ask you this. If you are a self employed working photographer or designer, why are you not factoring the costs of software into the fees you charge your clients?!?! That is what I do, my creative rate is what it is because I factor in things like cost of living (needing to eat, travel around town (subway passes)), in addition things like insurance, liability coverage and other annual fees, like the Creative Cloud are all factored in to how I charge for my work. Can I charge every person my top commercial rate, no, but I have worked out different fee structures that I need to meet for each situation that cover the basics.

    • Just because I’m an amateur doesn’t mean that Elements is all i need for my hobby. I don’t really understand or appreciate your condescending tone that because I’m an amateur I don’t need anything better. I have invested $4000+ in software that I could use for years if I chose not to upgrade. I DO have a problem with Adobe not giving us any choice in the matter.
      I understand your EULA statement about not owning any software just the license key but I guess all that means to me is that I don’t expect any upgrades without paying for them. THIS is different. They are saying I have to pay every month for the rest of my Photoshop using life. I’m only asking for them to think of the little guys here. I’m not looking for a handout…as I’ve stated in a previous responce to someone, I’m completely willing to pay more for my software(I don’t have a problem with the price of CC), but I want an option to pay for which product I want to buy.

    • Well said, if you business model is right there is minimal impact, or just get it back as a tax expense.

    • Jeff, your comments irritate me. I am an IP lawyer, and I know that a software licence is not ownership. So, to put it precisely, we used to get a perpetual licence, whereas now with CC we are given a licence that needs to be renewed. And if we do not pay, then the licence is revoked. In the past, the perpetual licence was never revoked, which meant we could keep opening our files even if we never upgraded. So even if people don’t get their terminology right, the wisdom of the people means they get the substance of what is happening. Whereas you get the terminology, but do not seem to understand the substance.

      For the record, I hate Adobe’s CC strategy, and have bought my last Adobe product. Even if Adobe promise (through lying teeth) that LR will remain under the current licence scheme, do you seriously trust Adobe? Would you bet your wife and children’s life on Adobe keeping their promise? I thought not. Get real.

  47. Charging $19.99 a year to rent Photoshop is way out of line with other software makers’ subscriptions pricing. Microsoft is charging $99.99 a year for Office Pro for up to 5 devices and 20GB of cloud storage and 60min of Skype calls a month. Even in the enterprise my company gets charged about $12 per user per month for Office Pro, Exchange Mail and SharePoint. Price to rent a single software license should be about $5 to $9 per month per user with an option without using your cloud storage. Companies and single users that use cloud storage are going to or already have consolidated their cloud storage needs into one provider. Small shops will also be hurt by only being able to rent your software. A lot of small shops can’t always afford a yearly capital expenditure. Most companies deal with this by only upgrading every other year. You can’t do this with Photoshop CC since the user does not own the product they are only renting it and need to pay every month to continue using it.

  48. Does anyone have any experience with plug-ins under the CC model? I know in the past with Nik, I would have to reinstall with each new version of PS that was released. How does this work now? Do the Nik tools work in the CC versions?

    Thanks.

  49. Scott, best article you’ve written. I went to Adobe.com and found I had registered in my youth an ancient CS3 license, which, by now I had completely forgotten about. I signed up for the $10/mo. photoshop cloud and it worked!!! Thanks!!

    • and in a year you will be paying $20 a month and if you stop you won’t have PS and you won’t be able to open the PSD files you created with the PS6 and PS CC versions in that year. you have just signed up to pay $20 a month for the rest of your life.

  50. When Adobe made the policy of needing consecutive versions to be able to upgrade they came right short of a red line. The latest policy goes way over the red line and so no more photoshop and probably lightroom as well. No more NAPP membership unless alternative software gets the same attention as Adobe.

    I regret the tens of thousands of files I converted .to .dng or .psd since both my photoshop and lightroom were purchased as downloads and I am sure will not be available for future computer upgrades.

  51. Creative Cloud would have a lot more appeal to me if there was an option that after a certain payment amount (two years of payment?), the app would be “mine”. By “mine”, I mean, it would no longer require the monthly hostage fee I’d have to pay Adobe to open my files at a later date. I think for people who actively use most/all of the apps, CC is a very good deal, but the lock-in to CC has me worried, which is why I’m holding onto my box copy of CS6 and I’ve started to look at alternatives.

  52. As An employee of a non profit company this change is horrible. We don’t have funds for new software every year. I’m currently two versions back but i can still use my software when funds are low. Creative cloud I will lose access and be screwed.

  53. So what happens when I’m traveling and don’t have internet access everywhere I go. Can I still use Lightroom, Photoshop, Bridged etc. when I am traveling?

  54. The one-year “intro” sounds like the cable and credit card offers I get in the mail on a daily basis! Looks like I’ll be using my CS5.5 for a long, long time….

  55. When Google bought Nik Software, there was an immediate backlash from users wondering what was going to happen to their favorite plug-ins. Since that time, Google has reduced the price for the software. Seems like a good deal. But there is still that sense that things are not right. People immediately started looking for alternatives.

    That uncertainty about the future is, in my opinion, fueling most of the Adobe backlash… From the news that Adobe released yesterday, it seems that our favorite (if it wasn’t our favorite, we wouldn’t care) photo editing tools are no longer ours to own.(Yes, I know you can buy Photoshop CS6, but that is only going to be a valid option for a while, then Adobe will stop selling it, and at that point there will be no Camera Raw updates and no new camera support etc..)

    From now on, if we want to be able to use Photoshop, we must pay a monthly fee… forever. When we stop paying, we can no longer edit our images using Photoshop. We can no longer open our files using Photoshop. That makes the future uncertain and scary.

    I am not even going to try to do the math and figure out how much it costs over the years compared to the old price of updates. There is no point. Adobe can change the price any time they want and they could have changed the price of the upgrades at any time they want.

    It is the fear of what will happen down the road that has me concerned. Do I buy into the Adobe ecosystem and commit to a monthly fee for the rest of my creative life.. or do I make sure that I have boxed copy of CS6 (I don’t, I have been a member of the Creative Cloud since day 1) so that I can always open any of the edited (many) PSD files I have created?

    • You’ve captured the essence of Adobe’s subscription service. It’s a trap. Once you enter, you’re committed to keep paying or you can’t access the files you created with its tools.

      As for Google, it has a history of killing off products. There were no updates announced for Nik Software. Google is killing off it’s affiliate network, which helps fuel sales of Nik Software. I’ve not seen anything that leads me to believe an update is in the works.

      Trust your senses. If something smells bad, then it’s bad. Just like this move from Adobe.

    • And what happens if you decide to give up the subscription and all the files you created cannot be opened in your archive CS6?

  56. I am already a subscriber to the CC, I thank you for your ever-so-patient explanation and de-bunking of all the misinformation. You’re the best, Scott. See you in Seattle.!

  57. If this PR piece for Adobe is NAPP’s response, then it is time to dump both Adobe and NAPP
    This atrocious scheme means that my access to my body of work is subject to whatever terms and fees Adobe wants to charge down the road. NOT ACCEPTABLE.

    • I agree. No more Kelby training for me either.

      • Shoot the messenger why don’t you.

      • Scott could have said something to Adobe like, “this is going to make a whole group of people upset. What is your solution for them?” Instead he went with the marketing department from Adobe.
        When I was in IT there was an user group that always told the vendor this is wrong, you should be doing this or that. The vendor did listen, at times, and made the changes, other times nothing happened. At least the user group said something. I figure NAPP would do the same. No such luck. Totally disappointed. Is it time to move on, NO. I will let all the dust settle and see what happens longer term.

  58. Thanks for ever-so-patiently explaining this. Though I am already a subscriber, I always appreciate when you debunk misinformation: it’s one of your great services to the masses who follow you! See you in Seattle, Marie

  59. My problem is the lack of choice. Every person here describes a different situation and needs. The best answer, and successful one at that, was to stick with what Adobe had before – the freedom to choose. Own or lease.

    It’s as if Henry Ford, then the only game in town, one day announced he’d never sell a car again. That you could only lease a Ford. You think that might have changed the competitive dynamics?

    Adobe’s weak rationale about release cycles doesn’t hold water. It worked before, why not still? This is all about them, not the customer.

  60. Scott, I have to say that I’m dissapointed by your post coming from your position as President of NAPP. You represent what is probably the largest creative organization of pro and amatuer Photoshop users on the planet, yet when Adobe essentially doubles the price of Photoshop you tow the company line. Why are you not outraged? Adobe, on average, released a new version of PS every two years or so, and at the current upgrade price of ~$250 that’s around $10 per month. Now they announce a subscription rate of $20/month! Why aren’t you pissed off? All your members are now forced to pay double at the very minimum, and all you have to say is this is a good thing? You represent us.

    • Unfortunately, in my mind Scott has chosen to represent Adobe to his customers instead of the opposite and I let my NAPP subscription lapse precisely for that reason. I can only hope that his position will change as I predict a lot of his subscribers will drop NAPP and Kelby Training subscriptions along with their Adobe products. The subscription model is only arguable for professionals and I, as a hobbyist, have begun my search for alternatives.

    • Steve,
      Thanks for putting it so nice. I am thinking Scott is an employee of Adobe. Of course he will come back and tell us “don’t buy it” or something like that. I am totally disappointed that Scott did not mention that a lot of Adobe’s user base is not going to be happy with this decision. What do you have to offer them in return? Nope, nada, instead he said that he has no control of what Adobe does, which is true. However, he could have been a stand up guy and said something about the model does not make sense for amateurs. This is really a sad day for a lot of us who are not professionals

      • $20 a month is not a lot of money anymore. That’s what 4 cups of coffee, or dinner for 2, or a movie and popcorn.

      • You dedinitely sound like an Adobe employee – that’s another if their standard throwaway lines.

        Its double the price of current upgrades – got a line for that?

      • Sorry to bust your bubble, but I’m a civil engineer. I just don’t think it’s as big of a deal as some people here are making it.

      • So you just happen to be using the exact word Adobe do – what an amazing coincidence

        Its double the price of upgrades nw – I’d have thought an engineer would have better math skills than that

      • My math skills are just fine. I never bought Photoshop to start with. I only had Lightroom. So the monthly fee puts me ahead. You also aren’t accounting for the cloud features that the box software doesn’t get.

      • You could put the full version of Photoshop on a credit card and pay it off for less than the proce of a sunscription – might want to check those math skills again.

        Cloud features? 20gb of storage is nothing – its not even a single memory card.

      • $700 / $20 = 35 months which is 2.916 years. So in that 2.916 years depending on where in the cycle you are there are 2 maybe 3 upgrades.

      • Your math is fine based on your assumption, but you are missing the point people are trying to make to you and making the wrong assumption.

      • You just made the point of others; as new user it is a good deal for you, but many here paid $300 (Adobe sometimes sent offers to Elements users)-$700 plus initially. Most upgrade every other year and some every third year, so for them it is a significant price increase. Even if you upgrade every year, since Photographers generally have no real need for Photoshop Complete, it still represents a 20% increase. As a new user you were never subject to the initial costs, therefore comparing your situation is not a apples to apples comparison. The cloud features are, to me, a huge negative and even if I subscribe I would not consider storing anything in cloud storage. The chance of a data breach is a real and present danger. Would you care to donate $700 to Adobe to make up for what you never had to pay?

      • My assumption is Adobe wants more people to use its products. Telling someone to fork over $600 is a lot harder of a sale than telling someone it is $20 a month. Adobe is giving existing users a discount.

        At the end of the day everyone just has to ask themselves this question. Is new versions of Photoshop worth $20 a month? If the answer is yes then sign up. If the answer is no then don’t.

        Yelling in screaming in this comment section isn’t going to make Adobe change their mind. If this version of Photoshop comes out and the number of subscriptions is significantly less than the number of people who upgraded to Photoshop CS6 they can just come out with CS7 next year.

      • Your right it is not, but that does not change the absolute fact Photographers have different needs than designers. Photoshop Extended is designer heavy, with many tools Photographers never need. Upgrades for Photoshop extended run well over the $240 a $20 a month subscription costs and is a fair price, but the upgrade for Photoshop (regular) run $199 and often a 15% discount, so that is not a good deal for those only needing the tools in Photoshop, Since many upgrade only every second or third release, which can be 12-18 months, it is a sharp increase for those individuals, many who likely make less money than a Civil Engineer.

        Complaining will not change the move to the cloud, but expressing displeasure is the only way to affect the pricing structure. People who used all products are saving a bundle, while photographers may feel they are getting hosed. People like you, who never paid the initial cost and are completely new are getting a excellent deal too. They have a right to complain, not a right to knock Scott for stating his opinion, but certainly a right disagree and say why.

        Adobe says they recognize the need for a better solution for Photographers, but it will not happen tomorrow.
        $20 can be a lot of money; particularly for those with fixed incomes.

      • So Adobe can never get a price increase. Let me ask you do you ever get a raise. I’m sure everyone who writes Photoshop wants one every so often too.

        You can complain, but the only way Adobe is going to listen is when they look at the bottom line, If the bottom line goes down by people not signing up they will turn around and release CS7. If they look at the bottom line and it goes up don’t expect CS7.

        Nowhere in that presentation did they say there will never be another boxed version. They said the next version was Photoshop CC. That leaves them an out in case they need it.

      • Let’s see, you talked about people not knowing you; I retired early, my pension while great for now, will never increase, and in case you have not heard, those getting Social Security may well see very limited if any increase for some time. Small Business owners in the Photography and other business have a unpredictable income from year to year and during the down turn saw significant decreases in income.

        This is about treating each group fairly and right now, designers are being treated fairly while Photographers, those with Company security or other restrictions, and those without adequate Internet or no Internet are not. The have stated the needs of corporate users will security and other issues will be met, so that leaves the little guy.

        The cloud features from my stand point are not desired nor would they be used. I consider them rather dumb given the real and present security issues. (Google Cloud Security Alliance).

      • You obviously weren’t affected by any downturn in the economy!

      • You obviously don’t know me. I got laid off a couple years ago, but my reputation around town landed me a new job where they called me to come work for them. I was out of work for about 6 months and only worked part time for about 6 months.

      • How about sending it to me?

      • I don’t buy coffee out – only dine out on special occasions – don’t go to the movies .. Being on a fixed income, I can’t just up my outgoings as easy as you suggest ..

    • No one should be suprised that Scott’s essentially a shill now. in a way we are all shill’s too, that’s just the way our system works. We are all just phonies selling each other products. lol

    • The more I think about this model, the more scared I become. What if Adobe creates an enhanced form of the .psd file that’s only compatible with CC? Now you’re paying rent on not only the software, but your own files. I have to also believe that someday CS6 will no longer be compatible with whatever hardware or OS is current, what then? Is everyone really prepared to pay software rent for the next 5, 10, 25, 50 years just to work on their own files?

      Why not offer a standalone copy of the current version every 2 years of your $10/month subscription? There needs to be a way out of the cycle that enables you to work on your files.

      I am a working pro photographer with almost 20 years in the business and a loyal Photoshop customer since version 2.5. Unfortunately, I believe CS6 could be my last.

  61. Scott about your comment that other companies are doing it. That part is true but AutoDesk, Audible, Microsoft still sell a standard perpetual license for their software. They still accommodate the users that can’t or don’t want to go to a subscription model.

  62. Adobe, Microsoft, AutoDesk, and other “market leaders” usually have a solid footing in education markets especially in private higher ed. They offer these institutions deals compared to individually licensed costs, give low cost trainings to instructors who usually themselves are curious people who want to learn more and teach effectively, and then have these proprietary products taught in classes and used extensively throughout a degree or certificate, which then graduate students with some level of proficiency with the product, who then either purchase these products or work for companies that have purchased them for them to do their work. The whole cycle feeds back into itself, part of the reason why they are the market leaders when it comes to these apps.

    Here’s the thing, the individual sale, the consumer / hobby / amateur market? That’s not where the money is. It’s not that it’s a small part of the business, but it’s a market that they can predict loses from based on changes they enact, and then react as needed. It’s in large enterprises that buy licenses by the hundreds if not thousands, who have multi million dollar budgets, and IT managers who’s personal wallets aren’t being terribly affected by licensing costs anyway, and know it’s a necessary cost of doing business. Adobe like any corporation has one single mission, to turn a profit. SaaS modeling has proven itself to be very profitable and easy to spin in terms of PR.

    This is an opportunity for companies like Apple, AVID or Corel to take advantage of. AVID and Apple already competes very well in the video market, but Corel’s focus is on the Windows consumer market (WinZip, Roxio, Pinnacle etc.)

    Like the dominance of MS Office for word processing, spreadsheets and presentation, the only real competitor are open source alternatives. Maybe the GIMP team will step up and make itself truly a Photoshop competitor.

    • None of the instructors for a commercial photography program here in Nevada are positive about the CC change AT ALL. They can’t get IT to upload new print profiles to the print lab printers because IT won’t let ‘outside’ sources into the lab computers; good luck with the security requirements for those computers and printers. Additionally, as a side note, how does a student work on a school computer, then transfer to an external drive to take home and work on WHEN they don’t have / can’t afford CC at home?

  63. Scott
    Who wrote this? You or the Adobe PR Dept. ?

    Hopefully this decision will spur OnOne and Nik(google) to upgrade their products to take
    up the void.

  64. First off, I love you Scott (in a totally non sexual way of course). I have many of your books and learned way more from you than any other source I can think of. While I’m not thrilled about the way Adobe seems to be heading, I can’t say as I don’t understand their decision and I’m glad to know I can still buy a copy of CS6, I prefer to own over renting.

    That being said, do you know if the cloud version of photoshop will continue to support third party plugins like previous versions do?

    Thanks for clearing up a lot of misunderstandings on this!

  65. Still seems like a load of crap to me. It also looks like suicide for Adobe. I wont bite. Buh-bye Adobe.

  66. I guess I shouldn’t be too surprised by your position on this Scott, due to
    your symbiotic relationship with Adobe and the fact that your own big-ticket
    products rely on a subscription model. It would be hard for you to rake Adobe
    over the coals on this without shooting yourself in the foot.

    Nevertheless, it is still a little disappointing to see how biased your
    responses are. You essentially put Adobe customers into three slots:

    1. The enlightened who are thrilled with CC.

    2. The idiots who haven’t learned how to read (and think that CC runs totally
    in the browser, etc.)

    3. The crazy Luddites that can’t accept any form of change.

    There are, however, Adobe customers who have legitimate concerns about this and
    it would have been nice to have acknowledged those concerns in a less
    condescending manner. It would also be nice to see some facts that aren’t
    loaded with Adobe PR spin.

    Just a few observations:

    – Why do we see companies like Adobe and Microsoft resorting to the
    subscription model? Because they have mature products and they have an
    increasingly tough time trying to release new versions that offer real value to
    customers. Rather than get truly creative (not just PR creative) or downsize to
    the realities of the market, they implement these lock-in models to try to
    preserve revenue and profits.

    – Adobe is greatly weakening our ability to “vote with our wallets”.
    Sure, nobody is “forcing us” to buy their stuff, whether it be
    software licenses or “services”, but the situation is now much
    different. Before, we “owned the car” and if we didn’t like the new model or
    felt it wasn’t enough of an improvement, we could just keep using the old car.
    Now, we’re in a taxi and if we suddenly don’t like how the driver is driving or
    how much he is charging for the quality of the ride, our only option is to stop
    and get out, and that may be in a bad part of town where we can’t conveniently
    find another taxi.

    – All of the cost comparisons I have seen have been loaded with PR spin and
    false accounting. They all use old pricing (you know, the pricing that Adobe
    couldn’t make its revenue and profit targets with) against the new “my way
    or the highway” service model. The truth is that new versions that contain
    some new camera profiles and some fluff features that 2% of the user base will
    use should NOT be worth the same as previous versions of the products. Also,
    given that Adobe is now holding hostage OUR investment in experience and
    education with their products and now has a more predictable and consistent
    revenue stream, they should be reducing the price even further. Adobe is
    also going to be getting some level of boost from the “health gym”
    and “book-of-the-month-club” effects where people will forget to turn
    off their subscriptions. I would say $5 a month for a single product and
    $25 a month for the suite sounds about right – and I am referring to the
    permanent price, not the discounted first year.

    – Regarding that discounted first year, by the way, why not call it what it is
    – a bribe? Adobe knows that this is the critical time for acceptance and the
    first-year discount is a way to keep the water just cool enough for now that
    the frog won’t jump out of the boiling water. Someone who was the least bit
    interested in being objective about the matter would point out that unless
    there is some killer new feature that will change a particular customer’s life,
    that customer might as well just wait to join the cloud for as long as
    possible. That will result in even greater savings and it will be the
    last time that they will have the luxury of deferring payments to Adobe.

    – Finally, I strongly suspect that Adobe is being dishonest about customer
    satisfaction and adoption rates for the CC service. Just a couple of
    weeks ago I saw an Adobe survey asking how users liked the CC. There were
    just 3 answers to choose from and here they are (paraphrased from memory):

    A. It’s fantastic.

    B. I like it.

    C. I probably will like it once I understand it.

    With an “unbiased” survey like that, how can I trust anything that
    Adobe says?

    • Well said, Daniel. I don’t guess Scott has considered that the three of his books I have purchased in the past, in order to get the latest on a newest version of PS, will not be repeated, because I will not be purchasing any new Adobe products, and surly not the cloud options.

  67. OK, Adobe has the right to do whatever it wants to do – I get it! All I’m asking is that they permit current users of Photoshop to upgrade to CS6. That’s not an unreasonable request, and I truly believe that Adobe owes that to loyal users of their software.

  68. I agree with Mr. Kelby. I guess people don’t see the good in this yet,

    I’m an amateur photgrapher, I own LR4 and it was my first Adobe software that I bought. Many years ago I got one of the Elements versions for free(legal license), I prefered the real deal.

    I have used Photoshop CS3, CS4, CS5 and now CS6 without paying Adobe, because of this low monthly payment plan I want to be a paying customer and be able to use it more.
    I don’t use photoshop much, maybe 1% of all the images I take see the inside of PS, 99% of the images is edited with LR4 and some of them is edited in Nik Complete collection and/or OnOne Suite 7 (all bought). LR4, Nik and OnOne is in the perfect price range for me as an amateur. I think $1000 for PS is too much for me, but with 200NOK($34US) per month I won’t even notice the money is gone from my bank account. Here in Norway you don’t get 5 cups of coffee for $34, and a Canon lenshood for the kitlens costs twice as much.

    Don’t be afraid of it, embrace it!

  69. Scott’s link for CS6 upgrade is only for Student/Teacher. I did find another link on the Adobe site, but when I try to add to cart, it just says there was an error in the store and to call Adobe. I’m sure they’ll direct me to CC. As I prepare to start my landscape photography home business, I’m primarily going to be a Lightroom guy, with Photoshop only as needed, but my wife is changing her home business from graphic design to portrait photography, so her default is Photoshop. At this point, it’s hard to justify even the cost for CC single app. Adobe calling this “Cloud” is a misnomer; it’s really just a pure software rental, which I hate. Guess I’ll be sticking to LR4 and CS5 forever.

  70. I get the fact that Creative Cloud represents a tremendous value for some people who use multiple products and services. I also get the fact that a business sometimes raises its prices.

    For photographers who only need Photoshop and/or Lightroom, this is a step backward in value. The introductory pricing is only for a year. Once that expires and you reach the tipping point, it clearly becomes a way to Adobe to squeeze more revenue from existing customers on a continuing basis.

    For some people, there’s also an emotional weight to having yet another monthly bill. It means they can’t continue to work with what they have while juggling things to get the next version. In some cases, the next version isn’t impressive enough to warrant their money. This plan eliminates consumer choice in upgrade planning. They’re either frozen in time with CS6 or they become trapped in the subscription service.

    Eliminating any upgrades for the Creative Suite basically eliminates consumer choice. Once the introductory pricing expires in a year, it’s clearly a much more expensive product cycle. Instead of upgrading at $199 roughly every 18 months, single-app users will spend $360 for the same period of time. The opportunity to shop around for discounts from retailers also seems eliminated, though time will tell.

    The fact that the software becomes unusable is one of the most egregious elements of this licensing scheme. As others have pointed out, software subscriptions generally entitle you to maintenance and upgrades, but the software remains usable if you allow the subscription to lapse.

    Adobe is putting the squeeze on its customers in a very unfriendly way. They’ve eliminated choice and value for a great many of us.

  71. I’m a little disappointed with the attitude with which Scott seems to be using in most of his replies. Snarky and highly (highly) defensive, as if he is taking some of these questions and concerns a little personally. I know Scott doesn’t get paid directly by Adobe, but by the people using their products, but I think he is grossly out of touch with those of use who earn our livings having to use these products, and just too dismissive of those of us who have some concerns about no longer having personal control or domain over some of these products that we have to rely on. These are, Scott, actually very valid concerns. Maybe it’s time for a new photoshop educator? One that is also an advocate for those of us who have to use these products?

  72. As many have stated here already, this is unfortunate of the hobbyist and amateur PS user like me. This will represent a significant price increase over the long term.

    I purchased PS and joined NAPP because I wanted to take my photography hobby through the entire process from start to finish. What I once did in a B&W darkroom I can now do a 100x more on a computer and PS. PS has been an important part of the “fun” I derived form my hobby. Now it seems that Adobe is more interested in the “corporate” user. Hey, at the end of the day Adobe is a business and they need to make money in a competitive environment. It’s just sad to see that they will probably lose customers like me along the way. That is my choice.

    This must have some potentially serious implications for NAPP’s business model. Every new version of PS has meant a new book, DVD, live training, online training, Photoshop World, etc. What happens now with features being added to CC incrementally along the way? NAPP’s pricing modal and how you deliver content will have a big impact on how many of us stay or go.

  73. Great recap of the CC event Scott!! Thank you!

  74. I have been a member of the Creative Cloud since it was introduced. I love it and it is worth every penny!

    • I agree Jake. I’ve been a member of Creative Cloud the same length of time. I don’t get all the angst in these comments. I’m not a professional photographer nor am I a millionaire but if $49.95 a month for the whole shebang was going to cause me fiscal pain I’d start looking for another hobby or profession. Or gee, don’t join the Cloud and live happily ever after.

      • That isn’t the issue for me. I can afford it. However, the *value* of CC is what I question. I’m being asked to swallow a very significant price increase without a safety net for when/if I discontinue paying. The value just isn’t there for me, so I’m not joining the cloud. So just because you see the value in this, it doesn’t mean that everyone should value it the same.

      • I never said everybody should or shouldn’t do anything. It’s a choice everybody makes for themselves. What I don’t get are the comments damning Adobe for even offering it. To me it’s worth paying monthly to instantly get the newest version of whatever products I’m using. That’s MY choice.

      • There are two primary reasons that existing customers who use Photoshop/Lightroom are upset. First, it’s essentially a 70% increase in price and it gets worse as time goes on with the subscription – barring any changes in pricing. Second, those who use features in Photoshop CC products are committing their documents to software that requires perpetual payment. Stop paying and you can’t get to your own data.

        So with a substantial price increase on one hand and a DRM penalty for non-payment that prohibits access to your own data on the other hand, folks are a might testy about this change.

      • The comments are damning Adobe for making it the only option.

  75. As an educator I can see a number of problems with Adobe’s new plan. One is that Schools will be hesitant to invest in a monthly fee for software. There are many months when they are not in session so paying for it during these months will not fly. Plus if a school is teaching a piece of software that the students will not be able to use at home it will limit their lesson plans and what they are able to teach. It would much like a math class where you can only use the books and worksheets in class and only use your notes at home with a calculator.

  76. I own CS5 and Premiere Pro CS6. How does there upgrade pricing work when you own both?

  77. If I currently own PS CS5, is there a way to purchase CS6 outright as an upgrade without using the “rental” system? And, is PS Elements going to rental also?

  78. http://gimp.org/ & http://www.corel.com/corel/product/index.jsp?pid=prod4670071
    Replace your Photoshop & Lightroom with the above, and problem is solved.

  79. Scott, while you are correct that there is a great deal of mis-information out there regarding Adobe’s announcement, you’ve chosen to address the mis-informed (and I believe minority) instead of the large contingent of Adobe users (and NAPP customers) with valid arguments against the subscription model.

    Your responses are from a business perspective under which a subscription service may make sense. However, there are many non-professional Adobe product users that have been either disregarded or grossly miscalculated by Adobe. Unfortunately for you, my experience at PSW tells me they are a substantial part of your NAPP customer base and that will become more apparent to you as this moves forward. Hopefully, that will lead you to reconsider your position and lobby for a license model as more Adobe PhotoShop users increases your customer base.

  80. Glad that Scott doesn’t sound biased in this case, oh wait he sounds like he’s getting a bit far too along with the Adobe guys.

    There are more people in the world than there are big companies that can afford this. You should have used a reasonable man approach to your Q&A not a “I’m an employee of a company that will buy it, so won’t hassle me at all”

  81. I’m a fringe Photoshop user, and I’m becoming more okay with that all the time as Adobe continues to improve Lightroom. I recognize that I’m not (and never will be) the person Adobe targets as a Photoshop user — I have CS5 and only find I need it for a couple of things on fairly rare occasions, and just couldn’t justify the CS6 upgrade, much less a CC subscription, as there are other, cheaper ways to do those things if I really want to. And that’s okay — for me, and for Adobe. They need to focus on their true user base, and I need more simplicity.

  82. Please Mr. Scott K don’t take it the wrong way, I’m saying it as a business point of view.

    Scott is a business man and his business is selling us PS and L/R courses, that said and I ask you: would you critizes a company who puts bread n butter on your plate? Neither would Scott. I can never imagine Mr. Scott doing so, yeah he did help voice the upgrade issue but wow everything is all hunky dory well it isn’t. I’ll never agree to rent car (long term) nor will I agree to rent a software. I will continue to buy and what I don’t know ‘what’s new’ in the Updates then I won’t miss it.

  83. Do you have any idea what they will do with the Creative Cloud for Educators and Educational institutions. Right now we have a Concurrent license which allows 25 machines to have the software turned on at any given time. Will they possibly have a subscription like that?

  84. Scott,

    I’m really having trouble understanding your stance on Adobe’s new subscription based services. Only last year you were outraged when Adobe was about to stop older Ps users from upgrading, essentially cutting them out of creating new projects.

    Fast-forward several months, Adobe releases CC subscription, a pay or get off service, if you stop paying you can’t access older projects.

    To me, the situation is pretty much identical to before, but you are now all in favor of it? What changed, did Adobe slap your knuckles for questioning them?

    You pay several hundred $$$ for how many years, in the end what are you left with? Nothing. At least with a contract phone, you pay monthly and at the end you still are left with the phone.

    Adobe’s new subscription service is NOT good for hobbyists or semi-professionals, no matter how you look at it or try to convince us with wit/ humor.

    How long will it be until Adobe asks you to stop promoting onOne Software when all the once Adobe faithfuls jump ship?

    Many like myself will stay with CS6 until a better alternative comes along.

    • I’m betting that they said, toe the line or you don’t get preview editions to the new software from any Adobe product. That means his books and software come out MONTHS behind everyone else and they lose tons of money.

    • Martin — Indeed, when you have a contract phone and stop paying for it, you still have the telephone instrument. Only you don’t have a dial tone and nobody ever calls again. I have concerns too — but people rent homes, cars, etc. It seems to work there.

  85. For those who have just bought Cs6 the deal is very bad, 200 for the upgrade. 9/month for the first year and 2/month thereafter. 560 in total. The Upgrades came every 18 months or so an average of $11/month at $20/month for CC that an increase of over 50%. Adobe could forgive the first year for new buyers, and lower the per year cost in down years to make it more reasonable.

  86. Can you still buy an upgrade to PShop CS6 without having to buy the full version???

    • Yes, but you’ll be feature locked to what’s already in CS6. Adobe has only committed to minor fixes and security fixes. No new features except for ACR 8 (and then only compatibility and not new ACR features).

  87. Essentially Adobe has doubled or tripled the amortized cost of an upgrade at $20/month, depending on whether you go with 18 or 24 month intervals. $10/month for one year is nice but it should be the price ongoing as well. That would be a fair price, comparable with upgrading the standalone version.

  88. thanks Scott you did clear this up for me. I do not use all the other features and being a current Photoshop user for photography only, the $10 per month fee is not unreasonable.

    Herb

  89. The pricing examples I keep seeing in support of CC is for 1 year only. It’s important to understand the subscription keeps going forever and ever, but that’s left out when trying to show how great CC will be.

    For example, I got a deal on CS5 in 2010 for $300 (non upgrade pricing). 3 years later, I am still using CS5. If I were to apply CC pricing to this at 20/month, in 3 years I would have spent $720. Ok, so with that I would have also got upgraded to CS6. If I add the $200 upgrade cost I’d still be at $500 for 3 years vs 720 for CC.

    Thing is, not everyone needs the latest and greatest version. With CC, you no longer have the option to skip versions in order to save a few bucks.

  90. As far as I know, this is the first time a software product will stop working unless you continue to pay… and pay, and pay. A bad precedent IMO. As Lauren Weinstein put it, “Adobe gives the little guys the finger”. http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/001026.html

  91. Scott, your post is awesome (and awesomely humorous, as usual). Thanks for clearing up a lot of the misinformation and mania going around about this!

  92. Scott’s answer…

    Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.

    My answer….

    From my point of view I will not be renewing NAPP and Kelby Training.

  93. Looks like for those of us who don’t have boatloads of money to throw around, it’s time to seriously think about either going back to shooting film, or just getting out of the hobby altogether.

    I barely make enough money now to pay the regular monthly bills. I don’t have anything extra for silly stuff like this. Thanks Adobe. Pander to the rich.

  94. The CC model does not make sense for professionals or any full time long – term CS user. In fact, It will be crippling to smaller businesses and one person shops – at least ones who have invested in suite products over the past 10 years. The cost to keep the individual apps current will more than double, and the suite costs will quadruple under the new plan

    If you are new, green and just starting to use CS, then perhaps this is a not a bad deal, and if you have both a PC and Mac (CC runs on two machines) then its a good deal as you no longer need to buy two different licenses. But if you are a long term Adobe customer then you are being fleeced big time !!

    For those of us who have owned the product for a long time, and invested in Adobe’s prosperity – it clearly is NOT any kind of deal at all – its a huge price increase.

    For instance Photoshop stand-alone usually cost $199 every two years to upgrade, now, it will cost $120 + $240 = $360, our reward for loyalty is a 55% increase. (we don’t care about initial cost, we paid that 10 years ago).

    For suite owners, the screwing gets a LOT worse. We use Design Premium, or whatever its called these days – our two year average update cost has run roughly $500 per seat. With CC, the cost goes to $240 for the first year, and $600 for the second year. So we’ll be paying $840 for what used to cost us $500 a 68% increase for the first two years. Thanks Adobe.

    The screwing gets far worse after the second two year period. Assuming the $50 per month will apply – as an owner of 4 seats, our cost to stay current jumps from $500 every two years, to $1200 PER SEAT every two years. That’s a 240% increase.

    I don’t have a hard time coming up with $2000 to update something we use every day, but when they are extorting us for $4800, we WONT be renewing. Adobe just lost this renewal customer. I’ll buy one seat, and the rest can use CS6 forever.

    No need to do any extended math on that one. We work with a lot of companies in the graphics business – if Adobe does this, they will become the “XP” of this industry. Nearly all the companies I know and work with (and its a lot of them) will not be subscribing, they will keep CS6 indefinitely. Sadly, this will not be positive at all for this industry.

    It is very much a shame that Adobe thinks this is a good idea just because other companies have done it does not mean they have to. No one likes a lemming, a follower. And Microsoft is just about the worst company to follow on any front.

    Finally – any long time user who says they like this model over the old, more reasonable one is either on Adobe’s payroll or just is not very good at math.

    Sorry Scott, but I don’t buy that CC is good in any way, shape or form for loyal adobe users. Its not. Maybe people are just getting used to being screwed these days, I don’t know. Our country is sure getting its hope and change.

  95. Thanks for this, Scott.

    As one commenter wrote: “The fact that the software becomes unusable is one of the most egregious elements of this licensing scheme. As others have pointed out, software subscriptions generally entitle you to maintenance and upgrades, but the software remains usable if you allow the subscription to lapse.” This is my main issue along with the loss of flexibility in sometimes skipping a new version–and its $200 upgrade cost–from time to time.

    I’m a photographer so am only really interested in LR and PS. Would be nice to see LR expanded to include Camera Shake Reduction, panorama and focus-stacking and Intelligent upsampling for $200 perpetual licence with $100 upgrades every 18 to 24 months. Something like that would be ideal for my workflow and wallet.

  96. I make my living with photography and teaching it. This whole Cloud crap is not good business for me.

    Since version 3.5, it seems they came out with a new version of Photoshop every 18 months or so. If I did upgrade, it would be after the dust settled. If I recall the price would be $150. So… that means they’re more than doubling their income off of me since I have to pay that much or more every 12 months instead of 24 months.

    I often skipped a version due to lack of anything new worth spending another $150 on. So, in reality that means I’d be paying TRIPLE what I used to for Photoshop. Plus, it’ll now just stop working when I no longer pay the bill. At least my CS6 will continue to work.

    What if Canon said “Your flash has now tripled in price and you can’t buy it, but you have to rent. No rent, no flash”.

    I WILL NOT TAKE PART IN THIS CORPORATE GREED SCHEME. This will be the beginning of the end for their dominance. Did Bain Capital buy them or something?

  97. So Adobe just opened the door to, I don’t know, say GOOGLE! They will seize this opportunity in a heartbeat, SCOTT. The can and probably will since NIK is already in their family. This subscription move is ADOBE filling the coffer with cash in an attempt to seek a takeover is my guess. This is ADOBE being tone deaf to their customer base. I only own Lightroom and PS6 myself, I’m fine. But as a geek who lives in Vegas and studies the odds – #FAIL ADOBE

  98. We are going from being owners in perpetuity to renters with threat of eviction.

    • I feel like Adobe took the “Obamacare” route….if you don’t pay you will be taxed until you do pay. With Adobe it will be use your old version till you do pay and and get no updates till you do.

  99. Several questions come to mind:
    1-Is the Creative Cloud license such that I could have Photoshop on both a Mac and a Windows machine (in the past it was one or the other)?
    2-Is there any licensing problem switching platforms (from Mac to Windows or vice-versa)?

    • Yes you can install on 2 computers, 2 macs, 2 PCs, or a Mac and a PC. With Creative Cloud you get to use it on either platform.

      • What about 3 computers? with the current system you can install on multiple computers and activate and de-activate as needed. I have it installed on my desktop and on TWO laptops. It is activated on my desktop and ONE laptop, but when I travel or teach I deactivate my desktop and activate my second laptop. I read their agreement but do not see that addressed anywhere.

      • Nothing changes. You can install on more than 2, but only 2 will be active at a time.

      • I have actually done this with two Macs and PC. You just switch your active license to the machine you are working on.

  100. Wait till Microsoft adopts the Adobe slogan “It’s time for a change”. That’s when you’ll have to rent Windows monthly or your machine won’t turn on. Instead of upgrading your OS every few years when you want to, you’ll pay more to rent it and be told to get over it. Corporate needs are foremost because corporations are people ya know.

  101. Adobe (like Apple) know what they’re doing. That’s why we love them. They’re no trying to be pricks. They love us as much as we love them. A little more faith and a lot less worry. Life may not be fair but it is awesome!

  102. Scott, sorry to see you’ve chugged down the Adobe kool-aid. I’ve used Photoshop since PS6 and have upgraded every time (now use CS6 Extended). I’ve used Lightroom since version 1 and have upgraded every time to version 4. I’ve been a NAPP member since 2005. Based on my historical upgrade schedule of ~ every
    24 months, I’ve been “paying” ~ $12.42 per month to use both Photoshop and Lightroom (based
    on a average upgrade prices of $199 and $99 and upgrading ~ every 24 months). If you take into consideration my NAPP discount, this “rental” fee drops down to ~ $10.55 per month. How in the world do you think a monthly rental fee of $24.99 for both Lightroom and Photoshop is fair? For the thousands of Photoshop & Lightroom users like me, that would be more than a 100% price increase. I totally understand Adobe’s need to make a profit and I get that they can set the price to whatever they want, but they’re gouging loyal customers with this pricing structure.

    • My friend Kevin Graham did a blog post showing the calculations for a five year plan of software ownership. For a new user, the Adobe Creative Cloud plan actually works out a little less expensive than buying Photoshop and paying for upgrades (at retail prices, not with discounts).

      When he did the same chart for existing users, it showed a great disparity in pricing. Essentially, Adobe is helping new users get into the subscription service while severely penalizing existing customers – even when you consider the initial year of discounted payment. It just gets worse as time continues.

      Let’s face it, though. We’re not moving the needle here. As Scott mentioned in his post, Adobe has half a million customers already using Creative Cloud. NAPP represents roughly 70K, some of which are part of that half a million CC base. The rest of us just don’t have the momentum to move Adobe’s steamrolling plans.

      I’m disappointed that this post is essentially pointing out that this is the “new normal” instead of being yet another open letter to Adobe showing the disparity for existing customers. That part aside, I can agree with much of what Scott shared to dispel some of the misinformation about the change.

      I’ve not yet decided what I’m going to do, though. In my view, stepping into Creative Cloud is a trap that I don’t want to spring without more consideration. If I stay with CS6, then I don’t have much need for additional training or conferences (something I’ve always enjoyed and recommended).

      We live in interesting times.

      • Very thoughtful reply. I agree with you.

      • You are assuming that we all upgrade the day the new version comes out…we typically don’t.

        Even though I just got CC, I’m extremely on edge. My worry is that the minute I don’t want to shell out $50/month, I’m screwed and unable to even look at my past PSD project files or premiere projects. I upgraded to CC from CS4 Masters Collection so I skipped 2 major upgrades because money was tight and projects were slim for me those years and I could not justify the spending. Now, I’m forced to keep spending indefinitely which scares the crap out of me and I no longer have the luxury of waiting for my next big paid project or better financial times before spending money on software.

      • I think you make a valid point. This licensing scheme does not allow users to prioritize how they spend their money while still having access to the tools. Yet another reason I prefer to pay the traditional license at once rather than spread it out under a DRM threat.

  103. Scott,
    What you do not seem to appreciate is how this turns our world upside down.

    I can neither afford or want to do business with Adobe at this point but have not got a clue as to how to solve migrating Lightroom4 to any other program.

    It never occurred to me how vulnerable my countless hours of work was to Adobe’s whims.

    I have worked hard to protect my work by multiple backups up but left the organization to lightroom. I kept buying every other photoshop and lightroom update. A big mistake on my part.

    I have also lost a huge amount of days and hours learning both lightroom and photoshop
    which were never intuitive and now will rapidly be outdated with any future camera purchase.

    • You don’t need to migrate Lightroom 4 to another program. Lightroom 5 is NOT going subscription-only. It will be available separately.

      • Yeah … but up until yesterday … our Ps perpetual licenses weren’t going to go bye-bye either … It may not be Lr5 … but I think the odds are not in customer’s favor that will last forever.

  104. With all due respect scott this reads like an Adobe press release – its almost laughable.

    For example you don’t mention that $20 a month is double the current cost of upgrading every 18 months. You meet so many people that wouldn’t go back to the old way eh? So you meet a lot of people who can’t do basic maths then.

    You also don’t mention that this is more than Microsoft charge for the *entire* office suite – its nothing but a cash grab on Adobe’s part.

    People are not freaking out because of change (condescending much?) – they are freaking out because Adobe has just doubled the price of photoshop.

    Also you can’t buy CS6 anymore – all links on the Adobe site lead to subscriptions now.

    Sorry Scott, just lost a massive amount of respect for you on this.

  105. I will be seriously looking at the alternatives to Photoshop. I keep hearing they are getting better. Adobe has lost a customer here.

  106. It’s pretty rare I don’t see eye to eye with Scott and his sense of humor.. His outlook on things. Here I totally disagree. If I was a guy at the helm of a ship as large as NAPP.. My sole purpose in NAPP is training people on ONE piece of software. That piece of software and all the training that follows from this point on will depend of those people ‘keeping current’ or renting this software, I’d be upset.. Upset big time, and I’d let Adobe know it.

    This idea of connecting to keep a package running is a joke. Good luck to NAPP with all it’s subscribers coming to learn parts of software only a handful of people can afford/want/buy into. The concept is mad.

  107. No sale – I understand that Scott’s business depends upon Adobe, but I’m done with NAPP once my membership runs out. Discounts on Adobe upgrades was one of the ways I justified spending $99 a year on NAPP membership but that’s going away. I’m going to do whatever I can to avoid this Creative Cloud scheme for as long as possible. I can only hope that large corporate customers will rebel and Adobe will be forced to back down.

    It’s great to offer the subscription option to those who want it. It is over-reaching of the worst sort to make that the only option (and I knew they were considering this from a survey I did a year or so ago where one of the questions – after I’d said no to just about every CC option – was would I buy it if I no longer had the option to own the software).

    The fact that NAPP is just saying “yea for Adobe” and not in any way trying to support its paying members by taking issue with Adobe on this tells me that I should no longer be supporting NAPP. You’re not on my side in this.

    I’ve owned Photoshop since version 5 (not CS5, version 5). I’ll do what I can with CS6 for as long as I can. Adobe’s new features are by and large demo-ware – only a small fraction of them are of day to day use. Things like content aware move and fill only work at a professional level on a handful of carefully selected images. I can do the work by hand – to a professional standard – in less time than it takes to clean up the mistakes in their feature.

    I need bug fixes, OS support and RAW support for new cameras. I’d like those for CS6 and I’m willing to pay an upgrade fee for them.

    • Well said Jo and I agree with everything you say.
      Unfortunately, it’s the big company waving the big stick. I feel like I have been suckered in. They conned me into seeing the value of PS buy providing me with a great product. So, I have spent years learning it, buying books and training and upgrading since 1998. It’s like a KGB ‘Honey Trap’. So now they have me in the trap, I can’t move and they now say, OK, now we go in for the kill, either you start paying us a monthly rental or we will dump you just like last month’s newspaper! And within a very short while your version 6 will be useless, because we will not give you updates for your new Nikon gear or your new Apple gear. And you will be stuffed!
      Adobe are doing to us, their loyal customers, what Hitler did to Poland! And look where that got him.

      • Likewise if you refuse to buy new Nikon and/or Canon etc gear you can get those large companies to put a bit of pressure back on Adobe. Adobe would be essentially reaching into THEIR pockets.

      • You make a good point Jeremy. I think I may make my feelings felt on the Nikon Pro site.

  108. Q. Wow. Renting doesn’t sound so bad now.
    A. I know, right?

    … What? How does photoshop being twice as expensive and Adobe being able to make it even more expensive whenever they want make it sound even slightly “not so bad”? (Not to mention the ridiculous European price!)

    I recently started my own business, an extra monthly cost is NOT what I need, I can’t even afford it, even though I use photoshop 70% of the day. Got CS6 two weeks ago, after two years of working hard in order to be able to afford an upgrade. Been working with CS4 until then. If I go with CC and I have some really bad months and really can’t afford it, (Because, you know, that’s how things go when you’ve just started your own business or when you’re self-employed) I won’t even have my software to make money. Good luck getting out of that one, small business owners and freelancers! So, tell me again, how is hiring better than actually buying it? (And please don’t use the “if you have CS6 you only have to pay….”-excuse. We all know it’ll go up quite a lot.)

    Are you sure you actually wrote this blog post? Did you check it wasn’t actually Adobe controlling your mind? After all, that’s what they want us to be, right? Puppets.

  109. What an opportunity for Apple to come out with a major upgrade to Aperture for a fixed price to target those of us who are serious amateur photographers as they did with FCP X. By the way, bad launch of FCP X, but Apple has added features that makes this a great program at no additional cost.

  110. But just know that you still have lots of options, so don’t feel like you’re being forced down one particular road. You can subscribe to just Photoshop. You can buy and own Photoshop CS6.

    Until Camera Raw no longer supports that latest lens you bought, and you are forced to upgrade to the latest version of Photoshop. Surprise…cloud only! And as a European I am doubly screwed because prices are 50% higher than the US prices.

  111. I have been a Photoshop user since 1996 (that’s v. 4 for Win) and I have upgraded to each new version. I am now using PS6, and it appears that it will be my last, as renting software just doesn’t seem like the way to go for me. Adobe is not above increasing ita rental prices to outrageous levels. If for some reason a user is forced to discontinue rental, images created using the cloud version of PS could no longer be accessed because the software that created them was not accessible to the renter.

    So I’ll be putting my upgrade fee to other uses. And since I will no longer own the latest version of PS, and that is what NAPP concentrates on, I will no longer need a NAPP membership, Kelby Training, and the numerous books, workshops, DVD’s that I have purchased to keep up with the new versions. Considering all the money that I will save, maybe Scott is right that this is a good thing.

  112. Scott, I am a Nikon shooter and this looks like a great opportunity for Nikon Capture to step up. Many photographers will be looking for an alternative to Photoshop.

  113. I create books for a living, using PS, InDesign, and Illustrator. I have to keep up with the latest software to keep maximum compatibility with my colleagues, so I’ll be using CC. I get it.

    But I worry about obsolescence. When I retire, I doubt my fixed income will allow budgeting for $50 a month (likely much higher by that time) for a CC subscription. What if I want to open an InDesign file, or a .PS file, for some reason? I know in theory you can “export” the files using CC so they will open in CS6. But that would mean exporting a career’s worth of files right before you dump CC so that you can access them in your golden years. Surely Adobe could make available some sort of utility to convert files made with CC compatible with CS6.

    But really, does anybody think CS6 will even be viable in 10 years’ time? Or 15 years? I think a lot of digital files will become orphans, unfortunately.

    • Adobe is so dominate that if any viable third parties come around they will be able to read the files natively. Especially the older formats.

    • I used to work for a publishing house eons ago and everything was done with ventura publisher on Win 3.1. These files are unreadable by anything nowadays and does anyone lament ventura vanishing, nope. though we always kept strait text files of everything as well.

      There are always other programs that can be used, it just depends if you want Adobe’s features.

    • You forget that, by the time you retire – you seem young, so it’s many years in the future – that the prevailing OS (Mac or Windows, or whatever) may not run CS6. In fact, you can bet it won’t. Even with Apple’s updates to its OSX with Lion and Mountain Lion, each iteration breaks software.

  114. I just hear somebody who makes his income following Abode. Dispointing.

  115. People are getting all furious about 20$/month for a program. Personally, I find that pretty ridiculous. It is the amount of money people pay to play World of Warcraft, not to use a professional tool. A few examples for other professional software: Labview Pro starts at 6300$, Pro Engineer at 8500$, Maya at 5850$, Matlab at 2150$ (easily 10 000+$ with necessary modules).

    I guess it is similar to photography jobs: ask 500 and you get all the complainers, ask 5000 and you get the people who know and appreciate what they get…

    • No, people are getting mad at Adobe effectively doubling the price. It’s always been a discretionary expense for me, but one I won’t do any longer. Not because I can’t afford it but because it has lost its value. Also how many hobbyists and amateurs use those other products in the same manner as they do Photoshop? Gotta compare apples to apples.

      • Neil, why do you think hobbyists are entitled to Photoshop? Do they need it to survive, is it like bread, air and water? Should hobbyists be entitled to own a Phase One as well? After all, they really want it and will cry on the internet if they don’t get it? Personally, I can’t afford a Phase One but I don’t ask them to lower the price to match my income. I use Nikons instead. If I need more I rent it. If Nikon doubled the price I’d switch to another brand. Just like I’d use GIMP if PS was too expensive.

        If you don’t see enough value to pay 20$/month, maybe you find a better value elsewhere.

      • How is this entitlement? Overreaching much?

        So if you’re happy to pay twice as much for essentially the same thing knock yourself out. Myself, as I’ve consistently said, I find that the value proposition is gone with the CC model and I would seek alternatives. That isn’t entitlement, that’s evaluation and market choice.

  116. Bottom line, for us that only use the base Photoshop, this will cost $600 more over five years.

    See my analysis: http://www.lenspoden.com/photo-topics/2013/5/7/adobe-creative-cloud-cost-analysis-review.html

  117. Please note: This is not to condemn Scott for expressing his opinion, I’m just responding with mine.

    This might be fine for Professional Photographers and Graphic Designers, but I just take pictures for fun and play with them in Photoshop, so I can’t write off the expense. From what I’m reading here and on FB and G+, I am not alone. But that’s OK because I upgraded to CS6 last year knowing that it would be my last.

  118. Great article, Scott! Thanks for clearing up a lot of misinformation!

  119. where is the option for prepay for a year

  120. With all the hoopla, confusion, misinformation, and hostility this has generated, Adobe cannot deny that this is one massively botched introduction. Poor planning and communication.

    And has anyone noticed that there is no NAPP ‘learning center’ or any other word on its website for that matter?

    What actually is the NAPP position on this?

    And what was wrong with the product model before yesterday where the customer was free to choose between buy and rent?

    • There was one big problem, the old model didn’t provide Adobe with enough steady and growing revenue. I am not saying that to be cute. Wall Street likes companies with steady (annuity) and growing revenue streams, they will give them a higher PE ratio than companies that need to sell new innovation every few quarters to keep the revenue coming.

  121. Okay. I just wish that all the Adobe product managers would spend one month with a satellite ISP. The cloud would start seeming a bit stormy.

  122. As a retired pro i’ll stick to CS6 …Thanks and remember what happened to Netflix, Snugmug Pro and everyone else who miss reads their client base.

  123. I agree with what being said in the comments section here.

    If you don´t get pissed of by this, then you ignore your expenses.

    It´s totaly unaccapteable to force us to pay monthly for something that should be a “pay one time” package.

    If they actually want to give us the OPTION to rent, that is okay. You can go rent a car today, but if you want, you can still buy it.

    I totaly see why this is a smart solution for KelbyTraining as an organization etc , – but for us private photographers, ,who has this as a passion and hobby, this get insanly expensive.

    They also don´t offer a student single package plan, so for pure photographers that are only interested in PS, it gets really expensive.

    Seriously Adobe, you just slapped us in the face and said “we only want the rich people that use ALL our software”.

  124. “Also, just like any product, you don’t have to buy it if they do raise the price.”

    That’s not really true. The old pricing model allowed you to choose not to upgrade, and still keep using your old software. But the subscription model means you must either accept any price increases or immediately stop using the subscription software if you choose not to pay. If you do not keep paying the license fee, Adobe will pull the plug and you will have no access.

    If we were talking about a simple piece of software, switching to another product might still be a viable alternative. But those of us who use Photoshop have spent years learning its complexities. It’s not easy for us to switch to something else. This new model transfers all the power to Adobe, and strips the consumer of any real power.

  125. Scott, thanks for your analysis. However, I’m stopping at Photoshop CS6 and Lightroom 4. I don’t feel like being told by a company “this is the way it is; take it or leave it.” Adobe made a decision entirely in their interest. Fine. That’s their prerogative. Mine is to say “adios.” I’m looking forward to seeing what company scoops up the opportunity to provide the rest of us who are dumping Adobe with the tools we want and need at a price and distribution mode we feel comfortable with. I’ll bet Adobe’s decision will cut into NAPP and KT revenue, too.

  126. Scott:
    I just spent over an hour on “Live Chat” with both Customer Service and Sales trying to cancel my existing annual Cloud membership for CS6 so that I could take advantage of the announced “deal” for people who also own CS6 outright. I would be happy to send the saved transcript to you, but I know how busy you are. Suffice to say that I was advised that I would have to first pay a cancellation fee to terminate the annual membership before I could have my monthly fee reduced from $19.99 to $9.99. When I objected, I was transferred to a third representative, at which time the chat session was terminated by Adobe. I thought you would be interested to hear how at least one long-time customer of Adobe was treated.

  127. It’s time for a change alright … just not the one that you or Adobe Systems envisioned.

  128. india, china, africa … 50 bucks is a lot of money

  129. This move is really a killer for me!
    1. I live in Vanuatu and Adobe wont accept payments from here, despite the fact that I have a paypal account and my credit card is from an Australian bank.
    2. I am an amateur, this means that all my photo work is done on my home machine. I do not have an internet connection there. To get a connection with any near reasonable speed would cost me about USD60 a month.
    3. If I cancel my subscription I can no longer use the software.

    Cheers Rex

  130. Scott, two things. One, I hope all these comments on your blog will get forwarded to Adobe for their review and consideration. Second. It’s my opinion that Adobe’s decision to not allow access to projects/works completed as a subscriber after discontinuing the subscription is like holding it hostage for ransom. Could that be a violation of some fair trade practice and possibly some copyright laws? At the least it sure smacks of Adobe not caring about maintaining customer “goodwill”.

    I hope you take these comments in the spirit of concern about the potential problems this causes to some of Adobe’s customer base and not anything personal to you or the NAPP organization.

  131. Scott … you are a good sport, I hope Adobe appreciates what you do for them. But I can tell by your post that you don’t believe this is a good deal for photographers, but if you want to use the new features of Photoshop it is the only deal. Until there is a true competitor to Photoshop, Adobe can raise their prices and introduce new functionality at a slower pace. As an Adobe stock owner, this is a great deal.

  132. Misleading info above. If you own photoshop CS3 to CS6 you can get CC for $10 per month……..for the 1st year only!!!! After that it goes up to $20 per month. Why didn’t you mention that Scott?

  133. For those of you that are very displeased, which seems to be the majority of people, I would highly advise you not to waste your time being frustrated and posting on Internet forums and blogs. Take your efforts, energy, and time directly to Adobe with all of their communication channels. The higher the better.

  134. I’ve had Creative Cloud since it was announced! I love it. The best payoff so far? I bought a new macbook pro and I didn’t have to buy the mac versions of the adobe suite. I just used my cloud subscription and downloaded the versions I needed. My subscription covers all the products I need both on my old PC and now on my new mac. Makes much more sense to me than having to buy both versions every time they have an upgrade!

  135. The old pricing model didn’t provide Adobe with enough steady and growing revenue. Wall Street likes companies with steady (annuity) and growing revenue streams, they will give them a higher PE ratio than companies that need to sell new innovation via one time license fees every few quarters to keep the revenue coming. This was a business decision pure and simple … there is nothing here for the customers, but a lot for the stockholders. I would feel better about it if they would just say it and not try to make it like they are doing something for the customers, we aren’t a bunch of idiots.

  136. This totally sucks! I’m on fixed income and can’t afford to pay monthly fees….I save up and buy new versions of photoshop when I can….this is total greed from Adobe…just like everything else take advantage of the consumer and make millions of dollars for your extravagant toys. I’m sure Adobe has been making a good profit for all these years and now they want to rob people of their money. I usually don’t rant and rage about things but this has me so mad…..I have always talked about how awesome adobe is but not any more. Adobe you should be ashamed of yourself not every one that uses your product is a big business person…a lot of us are small fry and don’t have the extra money…when I buy something I want to own it not be paying till the day I die for something….like taxes!!! Arggggggg! OK…I’ve vented now I feel a little better…but still mad!!!!

  137. “Q. So Scott, what do you think is a fair price for a bundle of both Photoshop CC and Lightroom 5?A. A bunch of folks watching our live broadcast with Adobe’s Tom Hogarty thought the sweet spot for a bundle of the two of them would be $20, and I agree — that would be ideal. Probably isn’t going to happen, cause that would be both at about $10 a month, and one costs $700 and one costs $149. If you’re thinking, “Hey, $15 sounds great” I wouldn’t hold my breath for that either. I think $24.95 would still be really reasonable, but of course it’s not up to me.”

    Those are the *new* prices. How about comparing the upgrade prices? Because that’s basically the subscription model we’ve always had. So if upgrades were $199 and $79 every 18-24 months … oh, man, math is painful … that’s about $15 per month, or less. To me, a few new features are a wash compared to Adobe not having to deal with packaging or resellers anymore, so I’m not on board with these price increases. And if Lightroom goes subscription only (which I’d guess it probably will) then the $49/month subscription price would be more than THREE TIMES as much as the old pricing model. Maybe that’s fine for companies who can deduct it, but for the hobbyist it’s game over.

    You also didn’t mention that this discounted subscription prices for CS customers are for this year only. Next year – full price.

    I don’t mind the subscription model, it’s not much different than upgrading with each new release and we never truly own the software anyway, and change is a good thing … but the price increase for photographers is obscene.

  138. Thanks Scott for your article. My biggest problem with the CC is not the price, all Adobe products and services are expensive, and I wouldn’t mind paying for a single Photoshop subscription, but this feels like a con job from Adobe. You rent the software and if you stop, what then? No limited license, no software, no nothing. If I’m incorrect about this, please let me know.
    To some who have posted comments today, please stop shooting the messenger and NAPP. Scott is entitled to his opinion without all the vitriol and he’s allowed to be excited about CC. Alot of what is in CC is exciting, but some of the details, to be kind, were not very well thought out.

    • You make a valid point smitty. However, it seems that the majority of the ‘Kelby attackers’ are NAPP members and they feel a bit let down that their President is not standing up for them against Adobe. Hence the vitriol. I think Scott is between a Rock and a Hard place and anything he says now, is going to be wrong!
      Meanwhile I was well and truly suckered in when I started using PS in 1998. They got me now……

  139. It is a crazy to me that a publicly traded company is giving up making money on perpetual licenses. Why not have both a subscription model and perpetual license model like other major software vendors have moved to. A subscription model really only benefits business that only need to use software for a limited time. They hire people for a project that may only last a few months to half a year and don’t want to pay for a full perpetual license.

    As for the price it’s too much. $19.99 a month after the first year is too much for renting one application. A lot of users don’t need the 20GB cloud storage or the extended version of Photoshop. It would be better if Adobe had a rental license for Photoshop standard
    without the 20GB of cloud storage priced at most $9.99 a month. And maybe if you buy two years up front you get a percentage off the total price but still bill you month to month so they can show Wall Street a steady revenue from subscriptions.

  140. Thanks so much for a clear picture of what Adobe has planned. It makes a lot more sense now. I think something that has helped create the confusion is that Adobe started patching CS6 CC, and a few CS6 retail users felt cheated. I think a wiser move would have been for them to have already made the change from CS6 subscription to CS CC before messing with the online model. I know as a retail users, I’m going to have to wait a while to get the most out of my hard earned retail purchase before jumping to the cloud.

    Like you mentioned in the Grid the other night, there isn’t a compelling reason for a photographer right now to even look at the cloud.

  141. I feel this is a money grab by Adobe its like if you are renting a house you are putting money into the pockets of others (adobe) and when you cannot afford to pay for any reason you are left with nothing .
    If you are on a high income and everyone in the software business goes down this track then you will be ok however for the small man you are screwed .
    I can see there are some advantages and its dressed up nice by adobe and I can see Scott is pretty keen and suits him but may I say in the nicest way I don’t think Scott is short of a $ either .
    Malcolm

    • I’ve seen the analogy comparing this to renting a house a few times, but I disagree. When you stop renting a house, you don’t get to use the house anymore. However, you do get to take all of your stuff with you to put in another house.

      I’m not sure that’s going to work if you use some of Adobe’s proprietary tools and files, though. Can you create a PSD using a layer with some feature introduced in CC and then use it in Perfect Photo Suite or Aperture? No. Perhaps you can see the photo, but you can’t get inside it to modify what you did in Photoshop.

      If I’m wrong about that, someone please correct me.

  142. Was there any mention of educational pricing for students? Also, what is the future of Photoshop Elements? Will that become subscription only as well?

  143. Just say this did not work out for Adobe and after a number of years they were not reaping in the amount $$$ they thought it would do you really think they would keep this WONDERFUL model with all the goodies (to get you hooked) no way this is about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    and having the power to control .

    I business worlds this would be classed as god business pats on the back I generally find someone is getting screwed somewhere somehow .

  144. I like the subscription model, but unfortunately, the company I work for has strict IT security.

    They block outside sites (yes, even Adobe and Apple), from our software’s ability to “phone home”. This makes it impossible to get updates and subscribe to the CC. I’ve tried very hard to work with IT on this matter, but they insist it’s a security hole in our firewall and can be a back door to hackers. Since my company is a high-technology business, specializing in risk management for the insuruance industry, I understand the security lock down.

    I hope Adobe has a plan for in-house departments like mine that have firewall restrictions that don’t allow Adobe’s products to authenticate, subscribe and update, automatically. Otherwise, my department of ten will be left out and stuck with aging CS6.

    Scott, I didn’t see this issue addressed in your Q&A. Do you have any knowledge for customers like myself?

  145. I am amazed. I have been a Cloud member since the beginning and I have to say, I love it. Not made out of cash myself, it is still cheaper than the way I was buying upgrades before.

    One thing that most people don’t realize is you get two licensed device uses. Since I work on PC (work) and Mac (hobby), this is great. No longer purchasing one hurts the other. Although I don’t just take PS CC, I have found that I have projects that require me to be flexible and use other Adobe apps off and on. So for me, I think it’s great. Looking forward to the new release.

    PS I work in the software industry and Scott is right, this is the standard delivery method that is being offered. I understand why Adobe doesn’t backport features – wish more people/customers understood the cost overhead to ALL of the products when you start doing that. You just can’t plop code in. All that time, staffing costs money. You are only damaging your own ability to afford the product with those types of expectations. Also if affects the ability to address the amount of change in a product as well as the quality of the product. Give Adobe an Attaboy – you just don’t realize they are really doing you a service. Those people want to make you happy, have an affordable product and of course, still make a profit – just like you.

    • I will not give an attaboy to a company that very well might remove the save as CS6 file function and then force you to pay up in order to access your own files. And the affordable? In Sweden CC will cost $35 dollar a month for one program and $86 for the suite (if you bind yourself to pay for a whole year that is, otherwise it’ll be $115).

      New users get some benefit yes, since the initial cost is cheaper. Use only Photoshop and on one platform? Then the subscription model will fuck you over fast and hard. To rely on leased software is not a good thing if you run a business. Not enough cash one month and need that money for some food? How will you make money to afford anything the next if said business needs Photoshop/InDesign/Illustrator?

      • Sorry you feel that way but I am sure your files are not held hostage. Also you can use your one license on both a Mac and PC. You can use it on two different machines. Sounds like you haven’t really read the fine print nor used the service yet.

        It’s still cheaper than buying the suite in the box. I have been on the cloud since it started and my software investment is much lower. My updates are frequent and I am overall happier. If you are someone who doesn’t update their software except every third version, maybe you won’t save money. But like anything, you want the latest, you pay for the latest.

        PS you can always use GIMP or any of the other freeware.

  146. I think Scott and NAPP are missing the point here due to their attachment to Adobe. As a NAPP member and Kelby training subscriber I am not happy with the subscription model the way it is right now. I’m shocked Scott is not voicing that on behalf of NAPP members and disappointed that it seems to not bother him at all.

    If an alternative product hits the market in the future as I think it will now with this announcement (Google/NIK?), then Adobe, NAPP, and Kelby training will lose a customer. As it stands now I will not be renewing my NAPP membership or Kelby training this year.

  147. Nice info but how about me…I have been a loyal user of the fine Adobe products for years. I feel betrayed!!!. My upgrade cycle is longer than most as I need to really get my value for dollar. 24-36 months. I have been a CS5 user and was in the evaluation period to upgrade to CS6. I decided I want it and bang..it is not available. I am willing to buy from Adobe, for $199 the upgrade and even though in the evaluation period can not. Yes e,ventually I will go to CC but as a single hobbiest photographer..it is not for me at this time. So I will continue to use Lightroom and CS5 unless I am somehow grandfathered as I was in good faith in the trial period for the CS6 upgrade when the rug was pulled!

    No link for upgrade or hidden deeply!

  148. I’ll bet you $300 dollars, Scott, that you never read the contract that you agreed to! It’s a twisty maze of 13 “included” agreements each of which contains clauses saying how the inclued clauses supersede any other agreements – and it references dozens of things I bet you have no idea what they actually are! I tried to collect all of the pieces into one document and gave up. I’ll bet that out of “500,000” subscribers less than one tenth of one percent could ever make out what it is they’ve agreed to!

    I’m also curious if Adobe really did change the “offline period” to *99* days. It had been 36 for a long time. A casual user who doesn’t use his Photoshop for a month could indeed find himself up a RAW file without a brush to paint with if they hop on a plane to visit that Grandma in internet-free rural Wyoming – and especially if they normally use a desktop machine and only once in a while fire up a copy on their laptop. Re-authorization has to occur on EVERY machine.

  149. It’s hard to say something new as many of the posts share my opinion. Adobe is doing this for themselves, for their revenue stream and offer a teaser to get people hooked. It is the worst possible scenario for the average user if this plan continues without ownership rights. Once one stop’s paying, they have nothing; Once hooked they have to continue paying. I actually find it amazing that Adobe would be taking this action in this economy and when the average photographer is having a hard time making a living. Adobe must now be run by Accountants. Reality for me is that there are other options for CR out there right now that are not bad substitutes. There may not be a comparable Photoshop, but with this move there will be. Thanks Adobe, it has been nice to know you.

  150. Where is the $9.99 upgrade pricing? I can’t seem to find it on the Adobe web site. Is the 9.99 price available for CS5 users?

  151. Adobe is making a huge mistake forcing users to the rental only model.

    When they announced the cloud version a number of friends made the change and they love it. Which is great because everyone had a choice. But now …

    I spent 20 years in software marketing and this veil move by Adobe is motivated by one and one thing only, to smooth out their revenue. Software companies are motivated to develop new and competitive products in order to entice customers to buy or upgrade. This causes a spike in their earnings. Every software company (including photographers) dreams of having a steady stream of income.

    I totally disagree with the comments that this move is inevitable or some how perceived as progress. This is a move that would be admired by any mob family. The only reason Adobe can consider these strong arm tactics is because they have a monopoly in the graphics software market. If you have spent years learning PS what do you do now, move to GIMP ?? Yea right.

    I predict Adobe will regret this move and once they start feeling the backlash will reversing this decision. This business model might work for Adobe but not for the majority of their customers.

  152. I will not expose my work or pay for Cloud Computing. There are other options for photo editing besides Photoshop. I am appalled at Adobe’s decision and will not support their company or products. I am not a professional and cannot recover this cost, nor will I pay it.

    Scott – I am a subscriber of your training and NAPP. I am rethinking my subscriptions. Bad decision Adobe and Scott.

  153. The link you posted only gets me to CS6 Design Standard which are all the programs for full suite price (not cloud). Photoshop as a solo product CS6 was not on that link page and still could not find on the adobe site anyway except cloud. Of course I am seeing this in Canada. Only thing available was CC or cloud Photoshop. Fortunately my local retailers still offer the box version CS6 PS, for now anyway, I could also find at some other online photo sites just not adobe.

    • I had problems with the link the last time – sent me to another page maybe or it was missing on list. It worked this time when I tried. Now I see CS6 Photoshop on it as solo product. Thanks.

  154. Scott,

    This is like PRS saying you are welcome for the time being to keep your guitar. But, if you desire a new one and wish to continue you will need to rent one going forward. Forever. If you do not keep up on your rent they will take it away.

    What if you are on stage in at PSW and due to no fault of your own they decide that you have not paid? What if they decide that you are not paying enough? You are a businessman and do not like feeling like you are being “shaken down”. That is what this feels like at least to me.

    You have the money to be able to do that and I do not begrudge you for that. So it is not the cost that would be offensive I would think. I would be offended if they were to do that and I believe that you would be joining in on voicing your outrage as well.

  155. My understanding is that these apps will have to phone home to get authorization to run. If not renewed on some regular basis they won’t work. Some current users have had troubles when using a laptop away from Internet connection. (God help you if you’re still on dial up, I know folks that use these products in that situation) I also assume that Adobe will be using their advantage of having an opening to your computer for other purposes, i.e. monitoring uses of their products, monitoring your system, and other things that they can use and share with others for a fee. Maybe EXIF data, IPTC, etc. Also given their inability to manage security in Flash & Acrobat docs it will also be a potential entry point for hackers and other evil doers.

    No matter what advantages it may be for users it’s likely more of an advantage to Adobe. They’ve been watching Apple & Google walled gardens and control & they want a piece of that action. Get used to it. The cloud is more for the all of them than us. Sadly we lost this battle years ago. We’ve traded convenience for security & privacy.

  156. For anyone interested, here is a much more balanced and objective overview of Adobe’s service-only decision and it’s written in a less condescending manner as well:

    http://lifehacker.com/what-photoshops-move-to-the-cloud-actually-means-for-y-494225482

  157. re: “(but I can’t remember ever meeting anyone who was offline for 99 days.)”

    I ran into a photographer who goes on 6 month assignments in Africa, with no connection while he’s in the field. Works with Photoshop on his laptop (charged by his car) or solar panels. No Internet Cafes available.

    Also, suppose you’ve been working with Photoshop CC and your subscription runs out. What happens to all your .PSD files?

    • I think what he does in the field he can use even CS3 – forever!
      If he really needs the latest – then get a sat phone to connect.
      Don’t get me wrong – I am against all of this!

  158. I hope Photoshop CS6 will be compatible with Lightroom 5. Lightroom 5 looks fantastic, but I’d like to get more than one year of use out of CS6.

  159. Less commenting, more creating = more cash = CC subscription = more creating = more cash = etc

    I think people forget Scott is well aware how Adobe’s change can affect the income of his company. Scott has been fighting for his subscribers for years and has provided many deep discounts. I’ve saved a fortune just on discounts from BH Photo and software products due to Scott’s company. I don’t think he’s had the Adobe Kool-aid; I think he’s fought pretty hard for different possibilities from Adobe, and I imagine he’ll keep pushing them for further options. He’s a smart business person, so it’s in his best interest to keep chewing Adobe’s ear for other options. However, Scott is still only one person in the worldwide scheme of creatives. He only has so much that he can do. Try pushing a boulder up a hill by yourself. Eventually you come to realize that the boulder looks just fine where it’s at — I think Scott has realized this. But I think he’ll keep working to chisel away at the boulder to see what he can do. Again, it’s in his best interest as a business person to do so.

    So how about less bitching at Scott and, instead, provide options for him to take back to Adobe. You have his ear, so use it instead of degrading or accusing him.

    My option Scott (and someone mentioned this before) – ask for a downloadable version after 2 or so years after having a subscription. Users that are happy with the version they’ve been working with can stop once their 2 years is up (this will work well for hobbyists/amateurs and people that only use Photoshop/Lightroom). This could come as a “photographer’s option” with a reasonable cost of $15-20/month for the two years. Most people could probably come up with this cash, especially if they could keep the software downloaded after 2 years. Make your lunch at home two days and forego buying coffee for a day or two.

    I use Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign and other programs, so I’m happy to join the cloud where I can start working with the other apps for greater creative potential. But I can see how it’s not beneficial to others. More subscription options would be nice for a variety of creative folks.

  160. Howdy,

    Scott got it right of what he has posted, as if he needs my approbation. I am 66 worked the fortune 500 world. Adobe in my view, does more to ask for feedback from customers that I have ever heard of. Like my pastor said one time, “God is fair, cause he is unfair to everyone”. Public companies are in business to take care of share holders first, balanced with customer pleasing. I know first hand what big companies can and do to its products and employee’s. It not fair, I do not like it either. It seems “my entitlement” issues come to play with the subscription model. So what, I have accepted the deal, really a steal if you use a lot of Adobe products. I sort of wish, had a senior citizen discount (I know, you guys at NAPP are laughing…..) . I think I have OCD, cause I this thirst to learn, and learn and learn.

    I gotta have premiere pro and after effects, WHY. The next HUGE WAVE coming is quad copters and aerial photography. Adobe products are a perfect fit for this work. I gotta get about 2k to move into aerial work. The big boys got to put out about 15k or a hex copter. I am convinced to set one self apart is to offer this service. I can see my D600 zooming from 200 ft down a wedding isle, hover, then rise up and away…..need I say more!!!! exciting days ahead.

    Most kindly
    Ken in KY

  161. Well. I am sure this new feudal model will work just fine. It’s calculated into our pinched economy where predatory capitalist practices prevail. Here’s the thing. If this model is a taste of things to come I see an alternative economy developing along side it with alternative apps that will respect the means of production as being important tools in a creative’s tool chest and not just something one “rents”, like a car.

  162. Is NAPP or Kelby training working with Adobe on a CC (PS + LR or the suite) bundled with memberships to your resources – training, etc.

  163. WOW.. I knew Scott was in tight with Adobe, but this is ridiculous!!! This is obvious not a Q&A but an ad for Adobe CC. I don’t think Scott has realized yet that if most users are not going to be signing up for the CC, and just sticking with their Current version of PH that they won’t need any new training from kelby training or Napp.. He will go down just like adobe, and new coke

  164. Judson Rhodes, ELCC Treasurer

    I, and most of the 300+ members of the Enchanted Lens Camera Club here in Albuquerque, NM, are not professional photographers. We are however, Photoshop users and Lightroom users. As an organization, ELCC tries to encourage our members to better their photo processing skills by learning and using Adobe products, and acquiring those products (legally) whenever possible. Asking the majority of us who already possess the software to now pay a monthly rental fee versus upgrading when we want to / have the money is asking a lot. And the very real threat of deactivating out licenses if we don’t comply smacks of blackmail.
    We’re not sure what Adobe’s motivation is – other than provide for a smoother cash flow – but it certainly isn’t conducive to good customer relations.

  165. Your guys’ efforts with posting these long messages does little good if anything. Take your comments and thoughts directly to Adobe. The higher, the better.

  166. I’m done playing by the rules. I’m sure rooting for the Pirates to crack this baby.

  167. I will no longer use adobe products. Adobe can have both subscription to CC and selling to own the products simultaneously. Adobe needs serious competitors. I am done with adobe! I will use other alternative programs.

  168. The bottom line is that Adobe has 2 big problems on their hands. First, the price for Photoshop is doubling for loyal users who upgrade each time, and increasing even more for casual users. A permanent $10 per month would be fair. And that is not just a number I like. Previous upgrades average out to $11 per month ($200 upgrade / 18 month product cycle) for consistent upgraders. So, Adobe would be giving loyal users a deal to join the cloud version. And when factoring in people who upgrade infrequently, Adobe would be making MORE money than their previous upgrade model!

    The second major issue: no matter how much money you have invested in Photoshop, no payments mean no using the software. How about every $200 in payments would lock you into that current version and the software would not need to phone Adobe. If you want the continued new features, then you can pay more. This would give Adobe more incentive to innovate to keep people subscribing for updates. If you stop payments after $200 and want to come back later to upgrade, you would need to pay for what you missed.

    So, $10 per month and after every $200 you lock in the current version. Problem solved (at least from my perspective!).

  169. My problem is as a Master collection user who upgrades in the 18 month life cycle for $500. This will be $900 going forward. Do not give me this crap about the first year being cheaper. This is just Adobe trying to soften the blow of the BS cloud crap

    I also believe Scott gets the product for free, so his opinion on CC is just more Adobe Marketing. I doubt Scott can prove me wrong.

  170. Scott:

    Do you own your house or do you rent it?

    Do you own your car or do you rent it?

    Do you own your furniture or do you rent it?

    Do you own your cameras or do you rent them?

    Do you own your guitars or do you rent them?

    Do you own your clothes or do you rent them

    Do you own anything or do you rent everything, because according to you, you’d be an idiot to want to own anything because, well, renting just makes more sense.

  171. Shame on Adobe! what about us who are not pros and on a fixed income.

  172. I think Adobe is just tired of all those amateurs using their software and then asking a lot of dumb questions about how to use it, and this is the best way to get rid of them. Charging $20+ per month will ensure only those who really use it a lot and actually need it for their business will stay with them. At a guess they’ll retain about 20% of their customer base after two years. But if they’re happy with that, that’s their choice. My choice is to use CS6 until some new software comes along that’s better and I can buy outright. Or maybe those in charge of GIMP will have so many new software volunteers (angry at Adobe) that it will soon become as useful as PS is now. Anyone care to place bets on whether Adobe recants within two years after they lose 80% of their customers?

  173. You know Scott, nobody will be buying your books or magazine or taking your seminars anymore because those are just for amateurs, and Adobe doesn’t want amateurs using their software anymore, just professionals who don’t need your services.

  174. Scott, I think you sometimes forget the humble resources of the majority of your readers. Many of us do photography as a hobby–we save carefully for new equipment, watch our budgets carefully and cannot afford monthly charges. I’ll be sticking with my CS5 and use it as long as I can. I’ll continue to use LR for my work and Photoshop will ride off into the sunset.
    I suspect you’ll find you’ll be doing more and more LR workshops and fewer and fewer PS ones. PS will become a non-issue for most of us in the years to come–unless Adobe (and you?) acknowledge how harmful this decision is for Adobe and become less of an empire and more of a company that respects and values its users.

  175. I am disappointed at the amount of people that are making this a personal thing against Scott, may I call you Scott? :)

    To say that because of what he posted, “I am dropping Kelby Training” is quite odd. The value of the current training has not lost its value. I will agree though with those that say that the value going forward may diminish due to this change by Adobe. It is not a Kelby Training decision as far as I can tell that led to the CC. I mean Scott is powerful, but not that powerful.

    Scott has always said that he writes his books as if he were out shooting with you and you had asked him a question on how to do something. I would hope that this discussion here would have been the same. I know that my comments are what I would say if we were out together. I don’t think that some of the ones that I have seen here are.

    I hope that Scott was not doing a pep talk for Adobe. Rather, I hope that he is looking for feedback to take and show Adobe. I know that he is getting it whether he wanted or not. And I see Terry White on here as well so at least one person at Adobe is paying attention.

    RC was right, “Hey, this is my friend that you are talking about.” I still respect and admire the man. I am just not with him on this one though.

    My current PS 5.5 still works. I think that it may be time to upgrade to PS6 and hunker down.

    • Ken, let´s say that I was disappointed that my user group (NAPP) wasn´t able or willing to represent my interests -and those of many, as we can see- before Adobe. This Q&A was disappointing because it followed to the letter Adobe´s story, without any attempt at portraying what I consider my interests at all. Unless that changes, that is, and will continue to be, a disappointment.

      • Joe,

        To that point I could not agree more with you. What I was and still do find disheartening are the personal attacks. I disagree with Scott’s professional/NAPP stance, but personally I do not wish him any ill will. Many here seem to though.

        I am a fan of paraprosdoskians. It seems that many commenters here are as well…

        The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it’s still on my list.
        If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong.
        I didn’t say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.

      • I agree with you Ken and it is sad to see how people make it personal. I have appreciated NAPP, KT, and Scott for several years and have learned a ton from all these resources. However…I do feel one of the alternatives I must look at is to no longer give my money to all of Scotts companies/services. I truly hope that Adobe gives some kind of alternative and if/when they do I would be interested in the Kelby Groups services again.

      • Fair enough!

      • Kelby is VERY shortsighted!!! This is going to KILL the sales of his books. People have long memories when it’s about money.

      • Still, this Adobe move has so much alienated me from that company that -for me- it affects my allegiance to all its subsidiaries, NAPP being one of them. As far as I am concerned, NAPP will be one more casualty for me from all this.

  176. I may not be reading something here among all the previously loyal customers. When you already own a product and then subscribe to CC at a discounted price, after a year you decide the cost is too high, it is not offering you what you want or your business /hobbyist interest has changed – why would you no longer be able to open your files once your subscription expires ? Has CC in some mysterious way burnt the product you have purchased earlier and destroyed the DVD/CD it came on ? When you own CS3 upward, then you have the base license, the discounted subscription to CC would allow you to download the latest upgrade /version of whatever product from cloud and see if all your fears and prejudices are actually correct. If you then decide to cancel your subscription – you’re still left with what you went in with.

    I have my old CS5.5 installed on my laptop,have Creative Cloud on my main PC, and should I feel the urge to edit a file I have earlier uploaded for just that case into the cloud (cloud referring to where the software is located, not where you store all your work), I download it to my laptop, open it with CS5.5 and get to work.

    I’m not a professional, but Cloud has given me the possibility of using all available products and to actually find I want to be able to use even other products, so I have started using Illustrator and InDesign. I highly doubt there will be price jumps of 200 -300 % as some fear once “everyone’s hooked on CC”. Yes, prices increase as does the service and the numbers of features. But that is why most shelled out money earlier to get an upgrade, right ? Sometimes the feature was new ACR, sometimes compatibility to a new OS – but that was still one of the triggers to go and buy an upgrade. Now the upgrade is part of the monthly cost and that has become a bad thing ? Nobody forces to update. When a new version is available in CC, you can choose whether to update or not. If you are only using LR and PS, then buy your boxed LR, subscribe to PS at a discounted price (yes and even with monthly 33$ ish in non-US regions that is cheaper for the equivalent of PS extended), keep your old CD for PS and see where CC takes you. You don’t like it, then cancel your subscription, keep the free version with 2 GB storage and limited access to apps, and use your old PS version to open print and work with your files which you have saved locally just as you have done before.

    • You are assuming that people already have an old version. If they do not, then there is no longer a program to open those files in. That is the danger of someone getting on the CC right now. They need to know that there are potential pitfalls.

      I think that a lot of people do not use the other tools in the suite, I know that I do not. So having access to them is like being told that I have to buy a Peterbuilt when all I want is an F250. Yes, I know that I can haul a WHOLE lot more but that is not what I need.

      • Hi Ken, most of the people writing here already own a product else their argument of keeping their old version and never ever going to upgrade again is void. I also would wonder why someone would not save their work as e.g. jpg once finished to have later access or use a free flash player to see their files ? As to the Peterbuilt when all you need is a F250 – there are single apps subscriptions. They work the same as the whole package; yes, the gain of single apps is less and sometimes none compared to boxed products – but still you’d have access to the latest version should you decide to download it.

  177. Shocked at how many people act like Cloud was just “released” yesterday, Cloud has been out for a year+ !

    If you use more than 2 major apps, then it is a worthwhile deal. Master Collection will run what ? $2500 ? So if I put it on my credit card and paid $100/month , without interest that’s 25 months , and in the end , I am left with a 2 year old version of software.

  178. Scott Kelby = Adobe troll. Does anybody take this BS seriously?

  179. Scott, is PS CS6 the last version, the end of the line of the standalone application from Adobe? No CS7 or 8 or 9 standalones coming with the features that are already in the cloud?

  180. I am retired, I live on a fixed income. I now live in a foreign country. I am a long time serious hobbyist (40+ years) in photography. I do not ever intend on making money on photography. I was a CC subscriber and realized for the first year I really only used Photoshop, si I subscribed to just Photoshop only for ONLY $20 a month. Bought LR4 in Beta for LR5 will upgrade to LR5. NAPP Member (under Fraucha), subscribe to Kelby Training. I have spent uncounted $ on equipment and software. Downloading software into my computer that I buy(rent) is no different than buying the disks(which if your read carefully is a rental also). $20 a month to keep current on PhotoshopCC is not going to kill me, it is the price of what 3 venti Starbucks? I have had businesses before and even at the hardest of times I could still afford to spend $50 on my business, which was a write off (subscriptions are write offs). If I could not afford $50 a month I would be a bad businessman. If you are a photographer and can’t afford only $20 a month then you have to seriously look at what you are doing. This si an expensive hobby, we ALL KNOW THAT. Adobe is a business, Kelby Training(etc) is a business. Kelby trains people on PS…duh. So, what is the problem with Kelby Training folks liking the new Adobe model? They have even gone out of the way to mention several times that you do not need to spend $50 a month, they suggest you go for the PSCC and buy LR. If they were Adobe puppets they would not mention this at all.

    Come on people, seriously, you buy all this camera equipment, pony up for computers, buy or rent software (as the case may be) and still there are people who are totally clueless as to how CC works, how the pricing works and are crying over $20 to $50 a month?Do process the photos we take?? The way WE want to, to present the vision WE want to and not trust it to some lab somewhere like the old days??

    $20, on a fixed income, in a foreign country … not a problem. Seriously, if you are a photographer in a hobby or someone who makes money off of photography and you can’t afford $20 (which is what most of this crying is all about) then find a hobby that is free or for less expensive than photography. $20 where I live is good for 6 liters of vodka, Hell, I can give up 6 liters of vodka a month(my liver will love me), can you give up 3 or 4 coffees??

  181. Scott,
    I’ve been a fan and a NAPP member for a few years now. I upgrade PS every other version or every 3 years. That averages out to about $60 a year. With the cloud that will jump to $360 for 3 years with the 1st year at $10 a month. Being retired I can’t justify increase in price for the new program. I’ve attended a number of your training classes, watched all your shows, bought a number of your books and enjoyed the learning process. Like many who posted here, Adobe has moved a number of us away from using their products and using your services. I guess I’ll be able to buy that new lens now that I don’t have all this extra expense. I’ll continue to use LR as long as it is reasonable and will be looking for someone to jump in with an alternative to Adobe.

  182. Pathetic. You are making a mockery out of your own personal brand name with this. Nothing but a paid for puppet monkey of Adobe. Shame! I’m sure it’s easy to believe all of the copy they sent over for you to post when they personally keep your trough filled up though isn’t it.

  183. Q: So if I stop paying, I not only loose the use of Photoshop but also access to all my very own image files that I have saved as PSD files?

    A: Yes. Adobe got you by the balls then. You’d better not try to save anything in the PSD-format.

    Q: But they are MY images!

    A: No, you sort of rented those too. ;-)

  184. Scott

    I have read your article twice to make sure I have not missed out on anything. I suppose I could join the ranters but that would not really serve any purpose.

    I am retired and only took up digital photography 10 years ago and I have loved the journey of evolving technology. Over the years I have had Photoshop CS4 through to CS6 along with Lightroom 3 to 5, and Niks Complete Collection and One on One and you can also add Photomatix. I am not a professional just a keen photographer.

    In truth I have become bit of a software junky and I while ago I thought I must kick the habit, well I think now is the time. I cannot see how I can justify being locked into a plan that for my use is way too expensive. You note that for the Photoshop only option, the upgrade is only $10 for the first year then it goes up to $20. Lets say over a three year cycle the new cost will be $600 and change. Given the cost of my past upgrades approx $250 I cannot see how the math will work, especially as the next cycle will be an extra $120 at today’s pricing that is $720 and change. Sorry Adobe you have got it wrong this time, at least I still have my hard copy of CS6.

    George Osborne

  185. I agree 100% with ButchM’s quote below:

    “After 20 years … I think I am done with Adobe products (and by extension NAPP) … not because of any misconceptions or misunderstandings about CC … but because no software developer is so good that I will commit to a mortgage in perpetuity to use their wares, then when we part the ways, I still have no home.”

    How dare you Adobe! I had a high regard for your company for many years, but not anymore–you’ve become greedy and self serving and obviously don’t give a damn for all the customers that got you to where you are today!

    If you plan on keeping any customers, I suggest you give people the option of upgrading as in the past or going with this dumb mortgage, but you never get a house option!!!

  186. 2 day’s ago I bought CS6 and I will use it for the next 10 years. In that period of time I will save $2400 – $700 = $1700 …. Yup,…sounds like a new lens in 2023….

  187. As a hobbyist who has been put off by the cost of Photoshop ($700ish!) but has been pining for it, this seems, on the face of it, a good deal. $240 a year for Photoshop? Yes please! Sure, I won’t have my own copy of PS, but if I’m paying $20 a month for this and it includes upgrades from one version to the next (my assumption), than why is this a bad thing? It beats playing the “upgrade game” in my opinion. How is this a bad deal for the serious hobbyist whose only barrier to owning photoshop was the steep cost of buying the boxed version. Help me out here because I don’t see the problem with this subscription based system.

    • David: You fail to consider that after that big initial outlay, the cost -until now- to keep up at each refresh cycle was about $200 every 18-24 months. Now, it is $360/18 months, or $480/24 months. That is more than twice the cost of keeping up compared to what we have been paying so far ($200 or less). I repeat, this is after the initial outlay, just to keep up. Plus you must pay that for the rest of your life, whether you like the upgrades or not.

  188. Its a shame that Scott has gone down this line. just think what he is saying even if you pay $240($20 X12}for the years subscription you will no be able to Keep the software you have paid for even though it has been downloaded, and you already have CS6.

    That is a con in anyones book. Then WE ARE TOLD by Adode if you are just a keen amateur and don’t want to be ripped off this way, you can just go away and use Elements how condescending is that?.

    Scott you have lost focus and are fast loosing all creditability find some back bone and stand up for the ordinary guy I say again this is a RIP OFF.

  189. I would like to make one more comment. NAPP revolves mostly around one tool, Photoshop. And access to the tool is essential to us all. In addition to training, NAPP, as a user organization, was supposed to represent -accurately- the interests of its members. Reading your post, I see that NAPP, along with Adobe, has misread the interests of its members, at least the interests of those photographers who only use only Photoshop, and may be Lightroom. And, in my humble opinion, is now failing to represent these interests well and effectively before Adobe. In fact, you confess that you had some involvement in all of this, advising Adobe, in some measure. Therefore, I may wrong, but I predict that NAPP is going to feel the pain out there felt by its members, heard all over the cyberspace, and you may notice a backlash in your membership. Regrettably, if nothing changes, count me as one of them. And I was one of your first members, during the first year of NAPP´s existence, and who joined at the time when NAPP had just been created. Same with some of the other companies created around Photoshop´s existence. Sad times. End of an era?

  190. Gee thanks Scott. How much did Adobe pay you to write that one? Those of us who have supported NAPP all these years are represented by who? You should change the name to NAAW: National Association of Adobe Worshipers.

  191. NAPP – National Association of Pixelator Professionals. Just sayin!

  192. Scott, I just want to thank you for this post. I’ve read through some of the comments and it’s disappointing to see people make this about you and take personal shots at your integrity. I’ve been following you for over 10 years. Why? Value. And part of that value is your strong integrity.

    Adobe has changed their model and some people don’t like change. So certain people get emotional and vocal so they start pointing their fingers at a $10 monthly charge or let their minds go wild with negative thoughts, i.e., “the man is keeping me down or it’s not fair”, but the personal shots are just another sad reminder of the culture we’ve developed. The personal shots are just a symptom of the shallowness of our 21st century culture.

    For Adobe to be successful with this model they need to continue to do what they’ve done for years – bring value equal to the price their asking.

    Thanks again for all your hard work and value your bring to the community Scott.

  193. I understand why so many people are freaked out about the change, it may be a little scary, and everyone is right, we have no idea what Adobe may want to do with their prices. But… Scott just took the time to gather up the information into one place, clear up rumors, and put his honest opinion to it… stop attacking the guy, his position, and his credibility. He’s just the messenger here. Sheesh.

    Good luck everyone! Once the dust settles, I’m sure we’ll all survive this.

  194. Scott has glossed over a point I’ve not seen mentioned much. If you start a subscription, and terminate it after a year or so, what happens to the work,you have created with the apps. I’m assuming the apps will stop working when your sub runs out. If the apps stop do you lose access to the work you created within it?

    The only good thing about the subscription is it seems that it will stop Adobe ripping off all their non-US customers by their complete disregard for international exchange rates, at least Dick Turpin wore a mask when robbing people.

  195. Thank you Scott – always to the point, always funny & always relevant.

  196. This move by Adobe is a Digital Photographers worst nightmare. One of the major reason that a huge percentage of photographers use Adobe products is because of ACR and its breadth cameras support in Camera Raw, both new and legacy. However, should a photographer sign on to renting Photoshop (with Bridge and ACR) as well as Lightroom, a photographer will loose their ability to access their raw files when they choose or can’t continue to pony up for the rent. Further, this move invalidates all that Adobe has done and said about their Digital Negative format, DNG. What is the point of converting legacy files to DNG when there is no assurance that one will be able to access these files in the future? Further, as photographers, both amateurs and professionals bail on Adobe, I predict this will put a significant amount of pressure on camera manufacturers to standardize their raw files. Adobe’s decision to take this stance is going to be an earthquake in this industry and who knows how it will turn out. For me, I find this a stunning development, that Adobe would abandon the millions of users who have supported them over the years.

  197. Scott is a business man and a smart one too. If anyone has been noticing the last few years Scott K and company has been shifting towards photography and less and less of P/S.
    Take a look at his Light it Magazine, the grid, the majority of this blog (photography) to name a few it’s all photography.
    I been switching to Aperture and with all the plugins I can a lot without P/S (I have and own CS6). So Adobe go to H€!}…

  198. Monthly fee is not 20 dollars as mentioned in this post since you are paying 20 only in case you chose a yearly plan, otherwise it costs 30 dollars.

  199. Nice explanation Scott, but its still not cutting it. Especially when your business success evolves around Adobe products. Of course you are going to defend Adobe. Without Adobe your business will hurt. So this explanation is a bias opinion. You like the new Adobe rules, because you have to. Your business depends on people continuing to use Photoshop and Adobe products. I would’nt be surprised if Adobe approached you to make positive comments about their unfair software policies.
    Scott, I respect and admire you, but on this one you are wrong.

    Adobe wants to force people into the cloud and manipulate the market any way they want, but the consumer is a lot smarter than that. They will find out soon.
    Bye bye Adobe. The cloud us not for me or many other people I know. There are plenty good software out there to put up with Adobe’s crappy software model. I already use other software for pro jobs and we are very happy with how it’s going.

    People, don’t fall into the Adobe trap. You can do better.

  200. Looks like the brown envelope culture is truly alive and well………………………………………..
    Like many others I guess that I will stick with my copy of CS6, This could be a good opportunity for some other companies to fill a serious gap in the market. Adobe must realise that not everyone needs or wants to use the cloud, so putting customers like myself out in the cold so to speak is going to result in a serious loss of earnings.

  201. I feel bad for Scott as I believe he doesn’t think this is a good idea (“I’ve given my opinion to the point that I can’t believe they would actually continue to take my calls…”) But like he says this isn’t his decision. I’m sure he told Adobe about the backlash this would cause.

    I’ll wait and see what happens but most definitely will be signing up for this anytime soon. I don’t need fancy “anti-camera shake deblur technology”. I’ll just use the money I save and just buy a new tripod :)

  202. There is no mention of what to do if you own Photoshop CS 5 and want to upgrade to CS6. I was going to upgrade last week but was too busy to do so. I am kicking myself extremely hard right now! Do I have to buy the full version of CS6? In my opinion leasing anything is terrible. I can’t believe we have to lease photoshop now.
    Also when Scott does the math and says its a great deal he is only doing the math for the firsts year discount. What is up with that? A year flies by in no time at all these days!

    • You can “upgrade” to CS6 from earlier versions … it only costs $600 … no price break if you skipped it before Monday.

    • Doug,
      You can still upgrade to Photoshop CS6 from CS5. They’ve made it hard to find, but if you go to Adobe’s website, click on the “Products” tab at the top, then select “Creative Suite”. You can navigate to the Photoshop CS6 “Buy” page from there. For Photoshop Standard, the upgrade price from CS5 is $199. You have to buy it as a download — no physical product anymore, unfortunately.

  203. This has to be a very major negative for Scott’s business. NAPP, Kelby training, etc. will suffer as people stop using PS due to this change.

    On the other hand, this article was too pro-Adobe. They have greatly raised the price for most of us and angered a significant part of their user base. The initial price will rise (making Scott’s pricing argument misleading). They need a way to continue selling to the amateur enthusiast market at a reasonable price.

    In the meanwhile, looks like CS6 is the end of the line for most of us.

  204. As a long time fan of the Photoshop Guys, I hate to see this virulent discussion, but count me as another dissatisfied Adobe customer. I use LR4 and P/S CS6 and I have taken every upgrade since 1994. I have no need for the other products. Now there will be no CS7, and I will have to “lease” future improvements. I do think that Scott, Matt, and R.C. jeopardize their credibility with NAPP members if they come out as unabashed Adobe acolytes. Adobe’s self-serving changes will certainly affect me, but I fear they will affect Kelby Media Group even more. Since I will have no further learning curves to scale, why should I buy future books (to date, I have bought them all), re-subscribe to Kelby on-line training, or even be a NAPP member. I was looking forward to Las Vegas this Fall, and now I am reconsidering that as well. I have to think there are thousands of NAPP members who feel the same way. Please talk me off the ledge, I am a fan, not an adversary.

  205. I guess I’m just confused at all the uproar. Is this new CC just the equivalent of what used to be a version upgrade (ie CS3 to CS4)? I thought the subscription service was introduced last year. Is the pay by month subscription still an option? Seems like every time there’s an software upgrade prices go up some. Honestly, its now easier for me to have CS software at home because of the subscription plan. I can afford a monthly fee rather than a whopping 300-700+ fee all at once. The downside I do see is, as an in-house designer&photographer for a investment group owned company, convincing “the powers that be” and IT that the subscription service is better than just buying the software outright. We tend to work on a closed network and share files etc. via servers, so all the cloud sharing etc is pretty much useless to us (IT can’t police it). And the last time I checked, nothing about life was fair so why should we expect it from software companies. I guess for me the perspective is that there are much more life threatening things in this world to worked up over. Being an artist professional or hobbyist has never been cheap as far as I can tell. Before software, film and camera equipment even designers tools or fine art tools cost a pretty penny. Its my understanding there are other software companies that provide programs for creatives (I confess to being an Adobe user most of my career). So we have choices. No need to rake anyone over the coals as far as I can see.

    • Now I understand whats happening…rent forever…meh….I don’t think so. But I’m not about to get violently angry either. Just sad and disappointed that my 13year career and 20 year education overall is almost a waste because my trusted company seems to be pulling the carpet out from under me. sigh…there’s gonna be a lot of jpgs in this world.

  206. Just tried to upgrade to CS-6 from the last edition of CS-5. No go. Not happening. I can buy a whole new complete CS-6 for $600, but my upgrade privileges have been taken away. Or I can choose to be invoiced every month from now to the day I die, with who knows how many price increases along the way. Don’t think that’ll happen? Check out the cable companies. Love those bundles. Doing us a “favor” by combining services. Or check out health insurance rates. First year in both cases look pretty good. Then year two comes along and they got ya. Thanks, but no thanks. How many more monthly charges can be absorbed into the cost of doing business for photographers? Thanks Big Brother Adobe Monopoly for putting a gun to our head and holding us hostage and giving us no choice, all for our benefit. Yeah, this is going to be great.

  207. Scott, Since I have met you personally, I wanted to really set my thoughts in order before writing this. I think Monday will be known as “Black Monday.” Its consequences are dire indeed.

    It goes without saying that forcing a subscription on its customers without periodically offering a free perpetual license is unconscionable. Enough has already been said about that.

    I want to address the unspeakable damage this has caused. Everybody, and everything loses. The most important thing is that now we can no longer trust Adobe. Users are migrating from Lightroom to Aperture because trust has evaporated. I suspect Adobe has let accountants make decisions they are in no way qualified to make. Adobe’s business model has become identical to that of what America West Airlines’ was: screw your own customers. The PSD file itself is now not such a valuable format, since going forward it seems like a lot of PSD files will be used on CS6 or older legacy software.

    NAPP takes a huge hit. Your membership numbers are going to drop (or, at least your growth) as NAPP members migrate to other software solutions. Adopters of the subscription scheme will has less money for membership, your great books, Photoshop World and Kelby Training. What is worse, your fine and well-deserved reputation of standing up for the average user has been tarnished by this single, ill-conceived blog post.

    If I was on the Adobe Board, I would be incensed. I would be calling for the immediate dismissal of Shantanu Nayayen. I hope they dispose of him before he completely ruins this great company. Once you have proved to the customers that you cannot be trusted, you can never get them back. Without trust, Scott, all is lost.

    So, who then are the winners? Certainly not Adobe! Not the PSD file. Not you, nor NAPP. Absolutely not Adobe’s customers. That is why I call it Black Monday.

    • Well said. I think that their stock took a big hit. Netflix tried this and had to reverse course. I will think that NAPP is going to lose members and I am very glad I started with Aperture and not LR. I use PS but I have a set of cameras that will last for a while and I will look at Capture One as my raw converter or even use Nikon’s clumsy version. I think this opens the door for Google who bought Nik and for Apple to really try to take market share. Heck, Apple killed off Flash or greatly reduced it.
      I think that Adobe is not going to like the next few quarters.

  208. The problem I have with this is Adobe is taking away your right to choose.I don’t have a problem with CC idea but continue to offer a retail version that you can own. I want to decide when to upgrade. If i am happy with the version I have and it is working for me at the time then all is good. If I want to skip a version and then get a new machine and then up grade I should have that option and not have to continue paying for the older version. Let me get this straight… If I have a machine that is not going to be the best for a newer version I will have to continue to pay for the older version of PS {which would have been paid for in the past} or be forced to buy a new machine for the newer version of PS I am paying for. These “strong arm” tactics are no way to keep loyal customers. If Adobe thinks they need to raise prices, so be it but don’t take away the customer’s right to choose. This is a sad day for all creatives. You are now giving up your right to own your tools. Either rent or… NO PS FOR YOU! In the long run the market will decide and I would guess some company will come in to give us all some other options.

  209. What is sort of amazing to me is the degree to which Adobe has “spun” this whole thing to try to convince the public that the change in pricing scheme is somehow inextricably linked to the new service structure. IT’S NOT.

    Here is how I see what they have done:

    – The “Creative Cloud” is not really your typical cloud service at all. It is electronic
    distribution of software with some pretty light cloud services included (cloud
    file storage and syncing of settings, for example). The electronic distribution of software is
    nothing new for Adobe – my last 3 or 4 upgrades have been purchased online and
    I downloaded the install packages.

    – As part of the “Creative Cloud” strategy, Adobe has now moved to more frequent updates and patches. Previously, Adobe made patches (bug fixes) available as needed and made feature upgrades available every 1 to 1.5 years. Now they say they will release feature upgrades more frequently. “More frequently” apparently will vary by product and be somewhere between monthly and quarterly.

    – Now we get to pricing.
    Before, we bought a software license for each new version and there were
    discounts for existing customers to promote upgrading. Up until a year or so ago, those upgrade discounts were generous and allowed customers to skip a new version or two and
    still get some level of discount. After that time, you received a discount if you upgraded to the next version; if you skipped an upgrade you were faced with paying the full price unless Adobe was running some other kind of sale. In both scenarios, you kept the software license for the latest version you paid for and could continue to use for as long as you wanted or at least until operating system (Mac/Windows) upgrades made it no longer viable.

    The new pricing scheme has an arguably lower yearly cost BUT you lose the use of the software once you stop paying. It is somewhat similar to the old model if you always upgraded to the new version BUT now Adobe has taken away your software license once you stop paying.

    The “value” (benefit – cost) has been changed significantly. The cost has been reduced
    (particularly for heavy users of the “Master Suite”) but customers no longer have the benefit of a perpetual license to the software that would allow them to avoid paying for upgrades that don’t add value to their workflows.

    For a certain segment of existing customers the value has decreased significantly over the last few years from being able to upgrade every few versions to having to upgrade every version (or at least paying for the upgrade, whether the features are enabled or not) for as long as they need the software. Another soft “hit” to the value is that customers’ ability to “vote with their wallets” has been greatly weakened. A customer can still do so, of course, but now with a much more immediate, negative impact to the customer. Before, it was like owning a car and not liking the new year’s model. Now it is not liking a ride in a
    taxi and having the driver drop you off, perhaps in a bad part of town with no
    other taxis in sight.

    * * *

    Now here is the point I want to get to (finally): THE PRICING MODEL HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OTHER CHANGES (electronic distribution, added cloud services, more frequent upgrades and patches) THAT ADOBE HAS MADE. Adobe COULD implement a
    pricing scheme much like the one they used before:

    – They COULD charge an entrance fee for new users in addition to the monthly maintenance/upgrade fees.

    – They COULD give you a perpetual license to the software. All they would need to do
    would be to shut off the cloud service extras (cloud storage, settings syncing, etc.) and the periodic upgrades and patches.

    This, in fact, is how most corporate software licenses work. You pay an initial fee for the
    license and then annual maintenance. As long as you pay the maintenance, you get the patches and upgrades. If you stop paying the maintenance, you lose access to NEW patches and upgrades. If you stop paying maintenance long enough, you will eventually need to re-purchase the base license if you want to upgrade.

    What I think upsets people the most with this new scheme from Adobe is:

    – They have removed choice

    – They have reduced the value of the software for certain segments of the customer base and increased it for others

    – They have obfuscated the whole thing to try to hide the fact that certain customer segments will see a value decrease. This makes people distrust the company
    precisely at a time when Adobe expects us to trust them more (“we aren’t going to unreasonably jack up the price, we are going to continue to release valuable upgrades – TRUST US”).

    There is just one final thought I have: Adobe so far seems willing to kiss off a segment of its current customer base that I’ll call the “casual upgraders”. That is certainly their business decision to make but it makes me ask questions:

    – That segment has to be somewhat significant, no? I have no delusions that hobbyists and
    weekend warriors make up 80% of Adobe’s customer base but it should be at least 10%, no? Let’s assume for a moment it is.

    – Where is Adobe recovering that 10% in lost customers?

    – Is it possible that the new scheme is not as great as it sounds, even for less casual customers?

    – Is Adobe expecting to recover the lost segment sales with companies that forget to shut-off their subscriptions (I call this the “health club” or “book-of-the-month club” effect)? I’m not sure if Adobe is enabling “auto-renewal” or not.

    – Is Adobe expecting to raise prices and/or stretch out innovation to make up for the lost segment? I know Adobe and its supporters say Adobe would never do this but why
    not? Once everyone is on board they certainly have a club that they didn’t have before (holding the software hostage). Why would they NOT use it from a business perspective? They don’t have to be obviously abusive about it – they can just continue to use the boiling
    frog strategy that they are already using, slowly increasing prices and stretching out upgrades at least until they make up for the lost customer segment.

    These are the types of questions I don’t see being asked and talked about in an objective manner.

  210. I cannot financially justify upgrading Photoshop or CS any longer. It was affordable when I could buy a new version every 2 or 3 versions. But those days are done.

    This is very unfortunate because, as a software developer, I’ve been very impressed with the work the PS (and other apps) devs have done. It’s great software. And now management has priced many users right out of their market.

    I’ll use what I have until OS incompatibilities kill it and then I guess Adobe is no longer on my machine.

    I’m done with Adobe. It’s been, what, maybe 15 years? Dang, I guess it was nice while it lasted. Everything ends.

  211. There is a good write up on this at: http://learningcameras.com/tips/5-all/142-adobe-creative-cloud-the-future-is-now-the-present
    That outlines how this will affect you, the reason behind the switch and the goods/bad areas.
    I think there is no denying that Adobe will take a hit for this and while I think the cloud is good, there are some issues they did not deal with.

  212. Oh Dear.

    I’ll wait a little and see what Adobe offers as a compromise, but as an Amateur / Semi Pro who is still working with CS4, I’ll also be looking for an alternative.

    I am also a little shocked at Scotts completely biased answer. I have also been following him for years and have huge respect for him.. but that would be the worst post I have ever read from him.

    The rest has been said. I’ll just cross the line to the side of the room which seems to be very full of the “probably leaving Adobe” People.

  213. Scott…I think you’re probably a great guy and I have followed your blog over the years, but as others have said, this comes off as an “Aw Shucks, get over it!” kind of press release from a guy who is firmly on the inside at Adobe!

    I don’t care WHAT the ‘improvements’ to the application are, having to pay a monthly fee to use Photoshop is simply the most stupid thing I’ve ever heard of! As a working Pro who has been in the business since 1980 and a guy who has made every penny reported on my 1040 from photography, not being able to ‘own’ the application that my entire business revolves around makes no bloody sense to me! I buy all the Photoshop upgrades whenever I feel the added features make sense to what I do, so Adobe will always have me on their corporate tit, but making my bi-annual Photoshop upgrade a mandatory monthly fee (at a substantially higher cost) is nothing more than profiteering on their part. And for the most part, totally unnecessary! I don’t want or need every new toy and filter they trot out. I’m not a Strobist fanboy who has to be perched on some techie cutting edge with my like-minded, weekend-warrior, amateur photo-geek pals. And as you even point out, assuming I sign on and then stop paying my monthly tax to Adobe, does everything I processed/retouched in the new Cloud-based system become useless? Having those two big burly guys come to my house in the middle of the night and digitally take back my copy of Photoshop really doesn’t work for me. Will I be able access files made on the ‘new’ app with older versions of Photoshop??? I seriously doubt it, and that would effectively render any work done with the new app useless UNLESS you pay Adobe! Doesn’t this strike anyone as being just a little bit like a monopoly?!!

    So Scott, I’m truly happy that you ‘love’ the new Creative Cloud scheme and you were first in line to purchase a subscription, even if I can’t full wrap my head around the idea that you have paid a single penny for a version of Photoshop in the past decade, but you’ll just hafta allow the rest of us to voice our serious distress at what seems like a very, very bad idea on Adobes part.

    Brad Trent

  214. As a PS user since v1, I Am not in favor of subscription as the sole option for amateur users. I upgrade every other version and find that works best for me. If this becomes the only way to have PS I will have to find another way to edit images. That option could include investing in open source ventures.

  215. The new plan may work well for a minority of users, but it seems it is ripping off the average Joe compared to Adobe’s previous pricing model. Scott, I find your towing of the company line to be a major sell-out.

    Personally, I will stick with CS6 and hope a competitor pops up with a viable alternative to Photoshop at a fair price. As far as I am concerned, Adobe can take their subscription Cloud and shove it.

  216. I see a lot of people being happy with the CC,but I am personally very disappointed…
    Adobe could easily leave the choice!…..but I am afraid they got too greedy and decided to suppress the standard version….trying making even more money
    a real shame….

  217. I have been using Adobe tools for a very long time. Long enough to have used all the major software since version 01. I must say that Adobe’s new hostile price structure is just a bunch of crap.

  218. Adobe! This is complete joke!

  219. CC a real sh** storm!

  220. I’m not happy about it. I use multiple programs, mainly for print-oriented graphic design work (InDesign, Photoshop, Illustrator, Bridge and Acrobat being used all the time; I’ve been needing to move into web work and add Dreamweaver and Flash, but now I wonder if I’ll just skip that and learn some alternative).

    In my opinion price is a problem — it’s grossly overpriced — but I already thought that. The cloud aspect is not why I think that.

    Another fundamental problem is what happens if/when one stops subscribing. You are left with nothing. Yes, you have your files, but no ability to open and work on them. You should own the last version you paid for and be able to go on using it there after.

    I would also like to speak the point of view that I don’t hear quite enough, and that is that I’m not in a hurry for updates. I don’t like the program to constantly change. I’m trying to learn and master the damn program(s) and if they change every other week it does not serve me well. I think new versions and upgrades, while clearly advancing the product to some degree, also just as clearly serve a purpose for the interest of the company’s profit. Can’t they earn a respectable income building and selling a great product without slight of hand?

    Deceit is how I view, not just Adobe, but other soft and hard ware companies’ business practices. My example is that I’m stuck on CS2 at home. My computer, which works fine, is pre-Intel chip, so to move to CS3 when it came out meant buying a new computer. We’re not talking about items costing 10s or low 100s of dollars. We’re talking about items costing 1000s of dollars. And new versions come out on a regular marketing cycle. I’m not made of money. I’m not going to just absorb the cost from the bundles I earn from owning these products. It’s pretty obscene I think.

    When I started working in graphic design (around the fall of 2002) and started learning InDesign, Photoshop, Illustrator, got my first Mac (my pre-Intel “dinosaur”), and then my first digital camera which lead to my first DSLR, I thought the software, the hardware was all really great. Thought it was well designed and special. I took many of Scott’s seminars and training and bought many of the books he sold. It was my shortcomings that held me back from acing right out of the gate these wonderful tools.

    My attitude was already in a more skeptical place before this new Adobe announcement. But now I am in a very angry place as regards Adobe, and then by extension other technology companies. I am deeply bothered by the business model of not only planned obsolescence, but obsolescence at a hyper rate. I am deeply annoyed by the apparent collusion between hard and soft ware makers in this, such as my non-Intel chip Mac barrier to upgrading, such as my DSLR that generates raw files that my software won’t work with. I began to think that these tools aren’t well designed. Well designed tools would be complex perhaps, but also elegant, intuitive and ready to be used. I can’t quite describe the Creative Suite that way.

    Adobe’s announcement has moved me into a serious rethinking. Maybe going into graphic design was a big mistake. I seem to be a revenue source for these companies, valuable to them for their hope to just go right ahead and attach themselves directly and leech like to my wallet.

    It is apparent that there isn’t right now a ready competitor to turn to. But like many others who’s posts I have read yesterday and today, I will be looking for an alternative. Could Adobe retain me? Well, for the short term I’ll have to stick with them. I expect my solution will be to get that new computer and CS6 (and probably wind up buying at exactly the wrong time, just before the next technological line in the sand and wind up again on the wrong side of it). Then I will work that new computer/CS6 for as long as possible while searching for a viable and sustainable set of tools to use going forward.

    I don’t want to hate Adobe (or Apple or any of these other companies). I don’t begrudge them a fair profit on offering a good product at a good price. But good business is good for both buyer and seller. What Adobe is doing may just be part of a current trend, but “everyone is doing it” is a miserable argument always.

    In summary: 1) the lack of ownership of the product is a deal breaking issue. If one subscribes for any length of time and then stops, all that money is lost. One is left with nothing. Nothing. The longer one subscribes the more severe the penalty. An exiting customer should be left owning and able to use indefinitely the last version they paid for. 2) their product is temporal and short lived but priced like durable long lasting product. It is grossly overpriced. It was already, and the subscription model makes that worse as previously one could skip versions and keep working. 3) the constant changing of the product is less positive than it seems on the face of it. It doesn’t help to have the tool constantly changing. A more measured, more carefully considered and less frequent pace of changes would be better in my opinion. 4) this point was not mentioned above, and that is that for me, the cloud is not attractive. I don’t trust it. Even a trustworthy company (not every one is) can go out of business, usually suddenly if/when it happens. Then what? Many companies are not trustworthy. How secure am I with them? The empirical evidence with business in 2013 (and for a long time prior to now) is “not very secure.”

    Thank you,

    PETER WETHERBEE.

  221. Adobe’s new pricing model is just wrong!

  222. Yes….your take sounds like the corporate line…with your company on the take.
    Don’t you realize how many non-pro’s use this product and aren’t in it to be
    taken by Adobe in this way?

  223. Hi Scott,

    You addressed most of the questions that people have been asking about the new Adobe Cloud Service. However, there’s one very important issue that you did not address, internet speed. For most Americans and people living in wealthy countries, high internet speeds are available at a reasonable price. Unfortunately, for most of the world, that is not the case. Since the Adobe Cloud Service allows users to work offline, that means that the programs need to be downloaded to the user’s computer, and then, every month or once a year the user pays to have access to the programs. Downloading Photoshop, Indesign, Premiere Pro, etc… I imagine would need a very robust internet connection which most people in the world don’t have access to. So, in essence, Adobe has made it very difficult for users in most of the developing world to have access to new features. Now, i know the counter argument will be that they can just stick to CS6, or use something else, but, is it fair to ignore all those users who happen to represent the majority of the world simply because they live in countries that don’t allow Adobe to easily implement its Subscription based service? Of course, being able to get the new features quickly instead of waiting months is fantastic, but, for many, the boxed version is the only viable option. I just wanted to add the perspective of someone who lives in a poor country with an internet speed that would make using Adobe’s Cloud Service very difficult.

    • Adobe will have some discs available, for those who really can’t download. Anyone affected can talk to customer services about that.

      • That’s good to know. Thank you for the reply.

      • Then why not give the option to all of us!!? And pray tell how are they going to charge THOSE people compared to the rest of us? Why should those that can’t download be treated better than the rest of us?

      • Same Creative Cloud deal Ron, no favouritism. Just an initial big download burned to a disc, likely paying for shipping instead of downloading directly. Nothing to get excited about, just a problem solved.

      • One more thing….those of you that write PS books are really in no position to say much. Anything negative an Adobe will cut you out of the loop for getting early updates to write books and anything positive make it look that you are in it so that you won’t lose the income from writing those books. It’s better that you say nothing and let this settle out.

      • Ron, I don’t write Photoshop books, I write Lightroom books. Ones that talk openly and honestly about bugs and shortcomings and their workarounds. And you can read my comments on my blog and other discussions i’ve been involved in. I’m no fanboy. I’ll say it as I see it, whether that’s positive or negative, and right now I’m suggesting people wait and see how Adobe respond to the feedback. Although I earn my living from writing about Adobe software, I’m affected by their decisions like everyone else. I’m here, on my own time, passing your feedback back to Adobe, standing up for the users I support, but also clarifying misinformation that I run into. Nothing more.

      • I think both of us already know Adobe’e answer.

        The only way Adobe will respond is if customers vote with their feet.

        If they don’t get the message then they are more arrogant than most of us believe.

        The SaaS model rivals pulling classic Coke.

      • > The only way Adobe will respond is if customers vote with their feet.

        You’re probably right Nikonguy. On my blog, I said if you don’t like subscription, just stay on CS6 for now. That way you don’t shoot yourself in the foot, and they get an accurate picture of how many people are affected. For the majority of their user base, the cloud deal works fine. They know its not a great deal for photographers, so I’m still hoping they’ll come up with some kind a photographers package that is at least a compromise. No promises, but there’s no point us all jumping out of the frying pan into the fire yet, just to make a point.

  224. I’m 21-year user of Photoshop who owns CS6 (and still uses CS4 & 5 extended, and InDesign CS5) — and also a recent retiree with associated financial concerns. Even with the $10/mth for the first year price, this is a deal breaker for me.

    My initial impression of Photoshop CC is that it does nothing I need to do that I cannot do with my current stable of Photoshops and other applications such as Pixinsight and Raw Developer. Granted, Photoshop is a mature, well behaved, powerful, and generally fast, application, and it’s nice to have, but it’s not indispensable for someone in my position — and, like AutoCAD, it’s always been, in my opinion, overpriced. And now for individuals who have no need for the other applications in the Creative Suite, it strikes me as being way overpriced.

    Plus, I’m kind of a sometimes ornery cuss who lives in a mountain ringed Montana valley. I like clouds on the peaks, but attaching my computer to the cloud strikes me as no more safe than using a copper wire to fly an aluminum kite in a thunderstorm. I prefer owning to renting, and if necessary, I want to be able to spend a summer in the Alaskan wilds with a computer, but without an internet connection, and to run my most powerful applications on my laptop if necessary.

    Adobe just stiffarmed people such as myself, and administered a deep, slobbering, French kiss to the hordes of city slickers who can’t stand to be alone and must be electronically connected with everything all the time.

    Wall Street will like Adobe’s descent into subscriptions. So will Design Street. Maybe even some on Main Street. But on Lonesome Street, we’re getting skee-rooed. Royally. And that we don’t like.

    • Your situation is exactly what I was thinking of when I first read of Adobe’s decision to push this subscription-only scheme. Assuming you’re a professional photographer who has been using the app your entire career, once you decide to retire, then what? Well, if you’ve hooked yourself to the Adobe perpetual payment plan, the only option you will have to view the work you’ve done for a few decades is to continue to pay a monthly fee in order to have Photoshop work. And that’s simply wrong.

  225. “but I can’t remember ever meeting anyone who was offline for 99 days. I did hear stories of a Grandmother in Wyoming once though” = arrogance. There are thousands if not millions of people not connected to the net, yes, some of whom will be using photosho. Besides, I also see you have to download photoshop, tyr that on dial-up, yes millions of people still on that too in rural areas around the world.

    • That’s changing to 180 days, and in exceptional circumstances, if you talk to customer services they can make exceptions. As far as downloading goes, again, talk to customer services as they can provide discs for those who really can’t download.

      • THEN WHY NOT FOR THE REST OF US?!?!?!?! Will the person that gets discs have to pay an monthly fee? HECK NO!!!!

      • Yes of course they’ll have to pay a monthly fee Ron, and they’ll still
        need to activate online. It’s not a freebie. They’ll likely have to
        pay shipping on them too. Any discs would be a concession for those who
        don’t have the bandwidth for huge downloads, nothing more. They still
        wouldn’t be perpetual licenses, so there’s nothing to get excited about
        here.

      • Yes of course they’ll have to pay a monthly fee Ron, and they’ll still need to activate online. It’s not a freebie. They’ll likely have to pay shipping on them too. Any discs would be a concession for those who don’t have the bandwidth for huge downloads, nothing more. They still wouldn’t be perpetual licenses, so there’s nothing to get excited about here.

  226. I think if Adobe allowed users to keep the current version they are running every 18-24 months a lot of people would accept that model. This way they could stop their subscription for whatever reason and still have the software to show for their efforts. Not allowing people to have anything after paying for years should they wish to cancel is what is turning out to be the deal breaker.

    As a current Photoshop CS6 customer/user, If they changed their structure to allow people to keep a copy after 18-24 months then I would remain a Photoshop user, Napp member, and Kelby Training subscriber. Otherwise I will have to look elsewhere in the future. I believe that if Adobe follows this new structure of rental only there will be a serious competitor in the near future because of it.

    They let CC go a year before ceasing to allow physical ownership of software and forcing the cloud model, I wonder what will happen in another year. Something tells me that Lightroom 6 will probably be renamed Lightroom CC also.

  227. I agree with “Guest”. Adobe doesn’t need PR, they have Kelby!!! This was my first year with NAPP and it’s going to be my last. I’ll not spend another dime with Adobe and I’ll not spend another PENNY with NAPP. I am considering doing something that I said that I would NEVER do and that is buying a Mac and going to Aperture!!! At least Apple tell you right up front that they think that they are the best and they are worth it. Screw this model and the horse it rode in on.

  228. Scott – First, I think you are great and speak from the heart. You know I love you guys over at NAPP. You are one of the most honest men I know.

    I have been thinking about the Adobe thing for a while, trying to figure out if it’s something I’ll go with in the future. I can’t see it. CC is going the direction of Software as a Service (SaaS). In the traditional, when you get SaaS products, they are offering an additional service. I understand that Adobe will give you space in the cloud to store images, but I have that and can’t see using it. It’s really software, with the only additional service being updates as they are ready. So now I have to figure out if $20 a month (or $240 a year) is worth it to me for some cool extra features. I don’t use Photoshop every day, I doubt I use it every week. I went from CS3 to CS5, not because I did’t like CS4, I just couldn’t afford the upgrade. I don’t lease a car, I buy it. I lease a lens that I might use on my camera once in a while, but not on a monthly basis, if I use it that often I buy it. I can watch a movie on cable (if I subscribed to cable, it was too expensive) or if I want to watch it more often, I go buy it. I don’t see Adobe offering that many new features that would cause me to spend that much money every year on software that I can’t stop paying for if I don’t want any new features. Granted, if I were making money off selling my photos on a routine basis, it would be the cost of doing business. But I don’t, so an extra $240 a year seems more like an expense I can do without. Maybe Google will end up buying Adobe. One can hope.

  229. And how does this benefit me if adobe goes belly up or I can no longer afford the subscription because of a job loss? How do I open my photos?

  230. Actually when you think about it if you properly take your photos P/S isn’t really needed. Other than removing objects, cloning, etc. we have been spoiled, with so many other software including the one your camera’s editing software you can do a lot and with plugins you can do more. So I say back to basics like in the film days darkroom, dodge and burn, crop and print etc. Ahh life was so simple then!

  231. The sky must be falling, I better look outside. Nope nice day I’ll take my camera out, get some nice shots and sit in front of Photoshop CC and have some fun.

  232. I’ve already expressed my views about how this licensing model will impact me. Now my thoughts turn to the thousands of small business owners who earn a living from PS plug ins and actions. The ramifications of Adobe’s greed are far-reaching indeed.

  233. Scott, nice spin

    1. If someone does not yet own Photoshop the issue is what happens when one stops paying – you have to find alternative software to open any PSD files or start saving as something else. (if someone owns CS3 for example and spends time using CC version, going back will all the features be available – NO, not even raw processing). You do not own software even let’s say after 2 years when you shelled out $480 for it! How would you feel if your camera was only available as a rental? Your next Canon upgrade is only $30 a month, but when you stop paying you do not get to keep it. And then two years down the road you can only go back to your previous generation camera (if you own it).

    2. $10/month deal is nice, but they do tell you up front, it is only good for 1 year and then it is $20, so the math (remember those UPGRADE prices – most people do not spend $700, so do fair math) does not work out. Most people do not upgrade every year. So what is cheaper 2 upgrades in 3 years or $600 in subscription fees for something that does not even get to stay on your computer (see #1)

    3. The offline thing IS an issue. I travel all over the place and have gone 3-4 months without quality internet connection (e.g. dialup) or on a very expensive pay per mb connection (e.g. Australia). So what happens to my photoshop if I am back offline for 65 days (2 times last year alone)? Do I loose it? There is something about PS letting you stay offline for 180 days and yet it also says that checking in every 30 days is required.

    4. What about those creatives outside US. I currently work in China. And, oh China is NOT eligible for CC. Neither is Vietnam. Neither are more than half of the countries that Adobe lists as “Group only sales” – so no individuals.

    5. Let’s be honest, this is a money grab and a piracy prevention tool (which can be understood). And yes having new features available immediately is nice. But offering your customers a choice for the way they do business and ultimately not holding people hostage.

    6. Oh and the “examples” you give for cloud services – audible, Amazon Prime, (all except auto cad) HAVE to be online. It would be impossible do download audio books without being online or stream movies without being online. Those ARE subscription services. And to stick with your example – I had Audible to 3 years. I quit it and guess what I can still listen to all my audio books using … AUDIBLE player. I can also go back and re-download ALL my books I already bought. I am not a hostage.

  234. Scott you sound like a shill and a company man for Adobe. $10.00 a month is only for the first year and then the price goes up. Up grade from CS5 to CS6 was less. This is a way to get price increases any time they want. And the new features are only easy work around’s for what we have already learned to do. Its kind of like programming. If you learned it in the early days you can use a lot less disk space than with the new languages. I have the I tunes and I am not real happy about buying an album an not getting a hard copy. When ever they want to they can up my subscription and hold my library hostage. NOT GOOD. I have been using Adobe products since Photoshop 1. I now have CS6 and Lightroom 5. I have upgraded every year because I thought it was worth it. This new idea does not give me a choice.

  235. I too must add my name to the growing list of amateur/hobbyist photographers who will be adversely affected by this insane decision by Abobe to go a subscription only model. I will never rent software it just does not make sense. I have been a Photoshop owner for numerous years (back to CS) and like many others have not upgraded every time a new version came out I usually upgraded every other version unless there was a feature that I just had to have. Most of us amateur photographers have a family, mortgage etc. that comes first. With this model if I ever decide or ever just can not afford to subscribe not owning anything just is not fair.

    Adobe if you are listening, I and I think a lot of other upset people would except this subscription idea if the monthly cost went towards a perpetual licence if you stopped your subscription. (ie if you had subscribed long enough to cover the cost of an upgrade you would get to keep that version, but would no longer get any new features, or if you had not subscribed long enough your were given the option of paying the difference to retain the current version.)

    To Scott Kelby I have been a NAPP member and supporter for over 5 years now and I I no longer can upgrade my perpetual licence to Photoshop being a member of NAPP will have no benefit to me and I will no renew my membership. I think you have greatly under estimated the effect this decision by Adobe my effect your bottom line. Anybody remenber the Commodore Computer magazines? The’re gone too!

  236. After reading all 434 comments (at this point in time), I can’t figure out why some people are being nasty and calling Scott names?!? You wouldn’t talk like that in person, and you shouldn’t do it online.

    You can have any opinion you’d like on the Adobe subscription policy, but express it with manners and respect!
    …and to those of you that knew enough to express your opinion respectfully: Bravo!

  237. I agree with the majority of the people that have expressed their comments below. if you want your thoughts and comments to truly be heard, copy and paste your comments and submit it to Adobe directly. The higher the department, the better. Give them a phone call. Write them an actual letter. Posting on internet blogs and forums do little good.

    • No, not true. Adobe fully anticipated this storm of criticism, but decided to go ahead for profits. If all the thousands of user comments were merely sent to Adobe, they would do nothing. The purpose of public comments is to create public pressure. That cannot happen if you just email Adobe. Adobe can’t care a stuff, you realise that, don’t you?

  238. Kelby you’re being disingenuous and shame on you for doing so.. Grow a pair and man up you know this is an abortion as most sane people do…

  239. Personally I feel adobe wants to get rid of the half price discounted users. The subscription model puts everyone at the same price point, and the discount only apply to multiple seats. I think Adobe wants to event out their cash flow and at the same increase revenue on it’s existing product lines. They probably don’t see the increase in new users like they did in the past, so the only way to grow revenues is to change the pricing model. Adobe controls a broad market for web and print content and design, and I my option leads to over pricing and a lack of innovation.

  240. Scott, you need to decide whose interests you represent–NAPP members or Adobe. One of those groups is deeply and almost universally unhappy with the Creative Cloud. One is not.

  241. I just thought of something else. This might not be just Adobe.s doing. With the advent of Digital Camera’s and Adobe Software many more people were able to get into the photography market. This may be a move by the professional to take back the territory they lost. They may be willing to pay this fee if it means they can go back to charging the crazy fees they used to because not everyone had lab in their back pocket. Still I wont give up my creativity to the cloud, or any pay to play scheme.

    • Hi Patrick ,
      We pros are hurting and don’t have the money to pay for cloud .
      I have always helped amatures talking at clubs & judging for them at no cost yet the amature who does have other sources of income and not the same costs does continue to kill off the professional .
      This is not about the Pros revenge .
      This is about Adobe making more & More $$$ .
      If I have to say one thing it is it would control copyright of the product more over the time I would say I have come across more people with illegal Photoshop the with Legal copies .
      I for one have respect for people copyright and all my software is legal then now I look at it as we are going to get shafted by Adobe and ask myself Why .

  242. Scott, here’s my concern. I use PS a lot while I’m on the road and I don’d usually have connectivity. Does this mean I can’t edit my pictures while I’m on the road and can’t afford to pay for for additional wi-fi coverage?

  243. Scott you need to get on the horn and tell that Adobe Dude you are buds with that his boss and his boss really made a bad decision. The peasants are rioting!

  244. I’m not a professional photographer. Even so, I have thousands of PSD files and hundreds of hours invested in learning photoshop. I’m a rather advanced amature when it comes to post-processing using Photoshop, ACR, Nik filters, Topaz, and Tony Kuyper luminosity masks. The CC model is too expensive for my amature photography budget. That’s a new lens every couple of years at $20 per month much less what I could do for $50 per month. I feel betrayed by the maker of a product that I’ve loved and sweated hundreds of hours to learn. I’ll be looking for a solution that does not depend upon Adobe. I doubt that I’m alone.

    Adobe’s CC approach will probably create a market for other vendors and I’m looking forward to checking out the competition since I’m resigned to the change. I’m a software engineer, myself, with some image processing background at the graduate level. We are a rather talented lot when it comes to the technical and algorithmic end of things…and there will be entrepreneurs that take advantage of the gap in offerings.

    Scott Kelby, if you are really tuning in, I think that you will lose customers too. I’ve learned a lot of what I know about photoshop by joining Kelby Training and purchasing your books over the years and I’ve recommended your training to many people in my local camera club. It’s a good bet that the people that can just bearly afford the CC model, will reduce their post-processing training budget as opposed to reducing their equipment budget.

    If there is anyone that can influence Adobe to find a way that doesn’t price amatures like me out of the Photoshop market, it is you. I hope that you will speak up for us.

    • de_ coleman believe when I say the amatures are not to only ones hurting the Pro market is declining as every man and his dog is shooting weddings / portraits etc.

      People like Adobe are now not satisfied with just making a profit they see that if they go to subscription they have total control over the user and the $$$ just keep rolling in the pressure is also off to make the next release one that people want to purchase .

      Funny thing is our costs with things like this are being based on the user pays (How many things can you keep paying out to each month) in the professional photography market the clients are demanding you give all your file to them – not wanting to pay very much for them which means you are giving away your lively hood that market is heading the opposite direction .

      Adobe – ” Money is at the root of all evil “

  245. What is going to happen now to those (especially Kelby group) that make money on creating books for different versions of Adobe products -e.g. “The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 4 Book for Digital Photographers”
    Are they going to make books for lightroom per year of updates?

  246. My 2 cents….

    As a working pro for over 30+ years. I will stay at CS 6 and LR4. I do not use any of the other software the adobe offers and the subscription does not make sense for me. I am very disappointed in adobe.

  247. Adobe has waited too long to implement this model. There are too many inexpensive alternatives available.

    First of all Photoshop CS5 or 6 and Lightroom 4 (if you already own them) are perfectly good platforms and will be for a long time. It’s not necessary to get every upgrade from Adobes since these have been underwhelming – it’s very difficult, for example, to get excited about Lightroom 5 which I’ve downloaded and used. Its improvements are minimal. (When are we going to get decent HDR processing or reasonable pano features in Photoshop? Even Microsoft’s ICE is a lot better at panos. MICROSOFT for god’s sake.)

    Alternatives for the photographer are the entire NIK suite from Google which you can now get for $149.00. AlienSkin and Perfect Photo Suite 7 seem to me to be entirely reasonable alternatives. Even Sagelight (which I don’t think is quite ready for Prime Time but is improving fast) is only $49.00 (only a 22 MB download compared to Lightroom’s 760+ MB). GIMP is a perfectly workable alternative and it’s free. Adobe has become bloated and expensive. Because of the rapid improvement in third party software Adobe is not going to remain the standard. So my advice is stick with the Adobe products that you have and add exciting new features as they become available from alternative vendors. You can drop into these vendors directly from Lightroom and Photoshop. Don’t patronize Adobe if they go to a monthly bill model. That’s just fiscal silliness. And don’t listen to shills like Greg Wilson or all the NAPP people that are going to try to get you to do this – they get their Adobe software for free.

  248. All the math on the value seems to miss the small and entry level user. There are other models, as mentioned in the comments, that could address this.

  249. The only thing that kills me about this is that I bought CS6 Production Premium a year ago, with the intent that in the future I’d be able to get a good upgrade price as each new version was released. Invest up front, and reap the benefits.

    I should have just done the Creative Cloud back then. I could have saved a TON of money up front.

  250. Scott, let’s say a person has created PSD files over a working lifetime, and then retires, from then on only dabbles in photography as a hobby. Funds are tight in retirement with no income, making the monthly Photoshop CC fee unaffordable. Should I just give up photography since I can’t access my lifetime archive of PSD files and edits, or … you tell me. So if I am in my 20’s, are you telling me that I am to just suck it up and pay the Adobe fee till the day I die? At current life expectancy, that’s 60 years of payments just to use a piece of software. In my case, would you suggest I find non-Adobe software. If enough people jump ship such that your Photoshop-dependent business is affected, would you start teaching and writing on Photoshop alternatives?

  251. Scott, it’s the hobbyists who will be leaving Adobe in droves. The professionals are the ones who have no choice but to stay with Adobe. My guess is that the bulk of people who buy your books and attend seminars are hobbyists – since the professionals buy more complex books, and don’t need seminars to teach them the basics. I suggest investing money in a new company that teaches Photoshop alternatives. So it confidentially so you don’t upset Adobe, but you must realise that your bread basket is falling apart at the seams.

  252. The problem is the pricing structure that Adobe is using. For US people full Creative Cloud costs 49,95 dollar monthly without any discount for me it would be 62 euro monthly without any discount that would mean i am paying almost 75 dollars that’s 50% more the US people.

    Also this renting is costly by example of some one else he bought CS2 (Student) cost 600 euro after that he upgraded to commercial for 650 euro then upgrade to latest version 700 euro so for 6 years he payed 1950 euro. If he wants to do the same again do 6 years with Creative Cloud that would mean he needs to pay 4860 euro that’s a price increase of 250%.

    People can say well you always have the latest version who cares not every function is needed for everyone only people that can afford the latest version or people that really need an option its becomes good investment.

    Here in Europe we are lucky with software by court order people can always transfer their software to some one else. So your investment in software is always what worth. When you are renting it from Adobe its absolute worth zero because you do not own the rented software.

    Adobe said it will cost them no revenue well with the system they have now by over charging European customers they will make 50% more profit on renting software to us.

  253. The problem I have with this Q&A is that it doesn’t really answer the real questions people have. Check out Lloyd Chamber’s site, macperformanceguide.com to see some serious holes in Adobe’s thinking . . .

  254. Scott, my feedback to you. Over the past few years I’ve bought about 4 of your books. Each time I upgrade Photoshop, I get your book. That’s now at an end. There is no way I am ever committing to a proprietary file format that I cannot open if I don’t pay a monthly fee till I die. Through my regular buying of your books, I have always felt positive about you – but this transition to CC means no more Scott Kelby books for me, ever, unless you start writing non-Photoshop books teaching us how to get the same effects using non-Adobe software.

  255. I made a Photoshop CC parody because of how much of a non-event this is. Let me know what you think :)

    http://youtu.be/HPTc79Qw2g4

  256. Scott mentioned one thing on The Grid which I thought about since yesterday regarding the upgrades. Of course for pretty much anyone short of a pro it’s obviously not worth it, but he said “I’m just reporting, I’m not Adobe” (this was towards the end of the broadcast). There’s actually an interest that Kelby Training and NAPP have in users migrating over to the CC.

    Simple reason is that this business model runs off of the fact that Adobe is the current dominant force in the market. If someone else comes along and the trend heads to another company, then that would require NAPP and related organizations that work very closely with Adobe and their products to either migrate and establish new relationships, leaving Adobe behind or to ride out the wave and you have two entities that are competing rather than Adobe sitting alone at the top. And that’s only in reference to photography, more specifically Lightroom, Photoshop, Bridge, Elements…the core items that photographers use.

    It will take of course a new up and coming piece of software to defeat the cloud by giving users an alternative. Nothing wrong with the cloud, the idea is fantastic and I hope they do well…it’s simply not the method I’m going to go with at this time or within the next 5 years at my studio. I believe that if another Scott Kelby like personality and businessman (with the similar set of skills) comes along, it’s very possible that the giant of Photoshop could one day be overtaken. This is a very long theory…but if we look at history, it’s rare that giants in the industry remain that way. They tend to always stay big, but someone else comes along and offers a product that takes a significant portion of the market. This isn’t to be cynical at all, but instead consumer-minded…I hope someone else comes along and has the opportunity to put Adobe into a tie for 1st place or overtake them altogether.

  257. I bought CS6 and hate hate hate the crop tool. I see they re-did it in the cloud version. Why do I have to subscribe to the cloud to get the fix for this crop tool. Charge me $20 for the fix but don’t make me subscribe to something Adobe took away.

  258. I’ve posted a few thoughts in here already, some of them a touch on the X-Rated side, but here is a response I posted over at photographyreview.com that more concisely expresses my feelings…

    Before I set off on what might get interpreted as a narcissistic rant, let me make my opinion on Adobe’s decision to move to what they are calling a ‘cloud-based’ subscription only licensing model up front and crystal clear. As a professional photographer who relies on Photoshop just as much as I rely on the digital cameras that produce my RAW files, I believe having to pay an ongoing monthly fee to use the application is an incredibly shortsighted decision by a company that essentially has the monopoly on digital asset management, and if I may quote David Hobby…the Strobist…”feels like the biggest money grab in the history of software”.

    I will also say that the majority of what I’ll be talking about relates to Photoshop, since that’s the World I live in. Whether or not users of Adobe Muse, Dreamweaver, After Effects or any of the other applications in the Adobe Creative Suite find added value in paying the new $50.00 monthly subscription scheme, I have no idea. I’m gonna focus on the idea on what an ongoing $20.00 per month subscription means for photographers…

    Adobe announced that by moving to cloud-based subscriptions they will have a better handle on piracy and cut their development and distribution overhead. I can’t speak to their development costs, but as for software pirates, I’m not so dumb to think that if there is a will, there is a way. You can bet there is already a kid in a basement somewhere with a pretty good idea on how to distribute free “Cloud Copies” of piracy-proof software!

    With the “Creative Cloud” being the really big news, it came as almost as an afterthought (to take your mind off the whole subscription thing???) when Adobe mentioned some new features they’ve added to Photoshop…like the Camera Shake Reduction tool, Smart Sharpen, and that you can now apply Camera Raw edits as filters. But let’s forget about any new features, since new features were why you would have paid for an old-school upgrade to Photoshop. New features are a given. The real controversy is that from now on, you won’t have the ability to move forward incrementally as you see fit. In the past, if Adobe trotted out an upgrade to Photoshop that didn’t fit your workflow, you could just keep using the version you had and wait for the next version before you kicked in your money to be up to date. Adobe didn’t like this. They saw it as a money-losing proposition. They even changed their long-standing upgrade policy so that if you didn’t have Photoshop CS5, you wouldn’t be able to move up to CS6. That pissed off a lot of Photoshop users, but I understood it. But apparently that wasn’t enough for Adobe. They have obviously decided that a perpetual subscription licensing model is the only way to continue bringing in a substantial cash flow. Assuming that hobbyists and ‘occasional’ photographers make up the vast majority of Adobe’s customer base, do they real expect these people to happily pay a $20.00 per month licensing fee to continue to use Photoshop? And if you can also assume that they will lose a pretty good percentage of that customer base…the casual Photoshop users, or those who decide to switch to Lightroom or Aperture…what are their plans to recover that lost income? Or maybe they’ve already got that figured out, and that is how they came up with the $20/month pricing plan for the Photoshop-only side to their cloud strategy. Maybe the actuaries have figured that since everyone who uses Photoshop doesn’t march over the upgrade cliff every two years, if they were to install a mandatory payment schedule it would ensure their income stream and they could claim the new plan, while more expensive, is actually better because it ensures a much more up to date Photoshop experience (even if the user doesn’t need the new features).

    But let’s look at what they are really proposing…

    Adobe claims the new “Creative Cloud” strategy “includes everything you need to experiment like never before”, and will allow you to “track comments posted to shared files, keep tabs on your work and your followers on Behance…”, and they drop buzz words like “Collaborate”, “Grow” and “Change” as though they are candies to be gobbled up by sugar-hungry children. I read this and can’t help but wonder if they have lost track of what a professional photographers work flow is REALLY like?!! Professional photographers aren’t looking to pay a $50/month license fee to ‘experiment’ with Illustrator, Premiere Pro or Dreamweaver! Professional photographers don’t use Photoshop as a social media tool. We don’t finish off an assignment by hitting the ‘Send’ button so our work posts in real-time on ‘Behance’ (which, in case you missed that press release, is owned by Adobe!). Professional photographers shoot, process, archive and retouch images in Photoshop. We send those images to our clients. And then it’s on to the next gig where we do it all again. I dare say that the overwhelming majority of professional photographers don’t waste too much time worrying about how Photoshop might aid them in ‘sharing’ their assignments on social media sites.

    As for the “Creative Cloud” itself, it’s not actually a typical cloud service either. It’s simply an electronic distribution method of getting software to the end user. OK…there are some very minimal cloud services included…cloud file storage, syncing of settings, etc…but electronic distribution of software is hardly a new concept for Adobe. They’ve been selling upgrades for years using this technology. What Adobe seems to think makes their cloud more desirable is their ability to issue more frequent updates and patches. In the past they have made patches available as needed and the version upgrades available every 1 to 2 years. With the cloud these feature upgrades can theoretically be added as they are developed. I suppose that is a plus, but again, there are huge chunks of Photoshop I don’t use or need now, so dropping even more features on most users isn’t going to be a make or break decision for most people anyway.

    But let’s get to the real elephant in the room…the pricing! After reading Adobe’s claims that new pricing scheme has an arguably LOWER annual cost, I guess we’re supposed to all join hands and sing the Adobe Theme Song and be happy for the windfall that has been bestowed upon us. Personally, I don’t believe that paying $240.00 annually to rent a software program adds any value to MY business model, but that would be narcissistic, and I’m trying hard not to make this all about me. Adobe is making it abundantly clear that they intend to employ this model to increase a revenue stream they feel they have lost because of those users who don’t upgrade on a regular schedule. We can’t keep going back and forth on that point. However, there is no mention from Adobe what happens after you lose the use of the software once you stop paying. How does a long-time user of an Adobe product access their files if they have stopped paying for a use license? I have no issue with a company wanting to profit from their product. Adobe deserves to be paid for their marketing and R&D when it comes to all of their software, but under the old model if you stopped paying for upgrades to the new version, Adobe didn’t take away your software license on your old version! Stopping an upgrade cycle didn’t mean you could open a file you did fifteen years ago! And believe me, if you get on the Adobe subscription licensing model train, if you get off that’s exactly what will happen with all of your work. It will become useless digital trash. The only way to content to access your work is to keep paying the subscription license. And that is just wrong.

    With this new decision to implement a subscription only licensing model, Adobe is in fact trying to change they way software licenses as we know it work. But is there something so totally broken with the idea of paying an initial fee for the license and then paying a scheduled upgrade/maintenance charge? As long as the user pays the maintenance charge, you continue to get the upgrades. If you stop paying the maintenance, you lose access to NEW upgrades, but your software will still function as you expected it would when you signed on. And I have nothing wrong with the idea that if the user stops paying the maintenance fee for a certain period, the user would then have to start over and re-purchase the base license if they want to continue along the upgrade path. I just had to do this when I moved from FileMaker version 5 up to version 12. I hadn’t the need or the want to pay for annual upgrade over the years, since I saw no added value…FOR MY PURPOSES…but when version 12 came out that changed. Since I had long since fallen out of the scheduled upgrade track, I had to repurchase a full version of the new software. That is a business decision best left to the consumer. What the cast majority of Photoshop users have been complaining about over the past few days is that Adobe has removed ALL choice in the software buying process, while reducing the value of the software for certain segments of their customer base…and increasing it for others. They seem willing to lose a large portion of their base clients…those hobbyists and ‘occasional’ photographers who don’t regularly stay on the upgrade path…and to make up that lost income it appears that the rest of the users will now and forever have to pay an ongoing fee to rent their product.

    These are only a few of the things that I really think need to be talked about. Adobe is, of course, making their “Creative Cloud” strategy sound like a wonderfully happy place and we should all bow down and thank them for thinking of us, the end-user, when they came up with this solution. But I’m sorry, but I can’t help but see this as a solution to a nonexistent problem!

    • Great post Brad !

      Looks like we have to press Adobe on our own…but I have hope, that Scott and many others great photografers, kick Adobe on this in our names.

  259. Can I store my images locally on my hard drive if I use cloud based PS?

    • Yes … all the apps in CC will work as they do now … the only major difference is in the licensing of the apps … it is that license I have issue with, not the apps or CC

  260. We want to have a choice.
    Choice between “virtual” copy and “hard” copy of PS.
    We want to have choice when to upgrade and what program to upgrade.
    Let us decide about it. If Clouds are so sweet, customers will fly to them like birds but they will fly on their on decision, and not because ” winter is coming ” :)
    At this moment Adobe told us: grab my hand or see my middle finger.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    Mister Kellby – I feel sorry for You as You try to defend something indefensible.
    This is the reason Your post is the worst piece You have ever posted on this great blog.
    You always treat Your readers, members, customers with respect, You always believe in their intelligence.
    Not this time.
    Greetings………………….Marek (owner of 3 Your books plus books by Matt, Corey and RC)

  261. One more remarks – I go to Clouds and of course I also buy some plug-ins like NIK, Topaz etc.
    One day I stop, for some reason, subscription and I do not have PS but I have many useless plugs.
    Amazing !

  262. I did not yet have the time to look at the other comments to see if anyone suggested this, but in arriving at a “fair” monthly price for a LR & PS bundle, you need to compare it to the upgrade price, and not the full version price

  263. This is really bad. Let’s say I subscribe at $50 a month for five years = $3000.00.

    If I cancel my subscription (or for some reason cannot afford it anymore), I have nothing left to work with, nothing left to show for my $3000.

    This is not right. I have Photoshop CS6 and Lightroom 4 and will keep using those as long as I can. This is a way to make us pay endlessly for things we don’t need. I will never rent software. I’ll switch to other software if I have to.

  264. Watching The Grid right now and it’s super unfortunate how most reacted to this post. I particularly really enjoyed the unbiased opinions.

    The Ps for Lr user suggestion is good but I would also like to see Adobe reintroduce the equivalent of the design suite for those that don’t need the video apps. Make it $35/month or something.

  265. My NAPP membership expired just before Adobe made this announcement. As a Photoshop user since version 2.5 and amateur photographer, I cannot justify the added expense for the ‘Creative Cloud’. I am actively changing my files from .psd to more universal ones unitl I can find adequate replacement(s). I also no longer have a need for NAPP membership – and I responded as such to NAPP’s emails ‘reminding’ me that my membership had expired.

  266. To paraphrase a posting on Lifehacker about Adobe’s move, the locking in of a one year contract really screws students over who might only need an application, such as Photoshop, for a semester or so.

    And I wish that people would realize that there are still large sections in this country that are Internet dark: no high speed Internet, no DSL, no cable Internet. CenturyLink (used to be Qwest) won’t sell me DSL; to buy wireless from the local ISP I have to pony up $500 for equipment, then the monthly fee; and satellite Internet is almost as bad. And the local cable provider told me years ago that they would never offer Internet.

  267. I posted this on Matt’s site but I would like to express my opinion here. I think the big picture is not seen in this Adobe subscription
    model. First, why is it occurring? Software and computers have been in a linear
    growth phase since the PC came out in 1980. Now this growth is leveling off and
    companies are trying to figure how they can retain their huge profit margins. Adobe has chosen their model and if successful
    others, including Microsoft, will copy it. (They have already gone half the way with Office). Adobe is the company in the strongest
    position to attempt to force this model since they have little competition and
    the strongest programs. Fully functional competition will take years. Imagine renting the operating system from Microsoft.
    Acting in concert with a company like Adobe they can make sure that only the
    newest operating system will function with the Adobe CC programs and vice versa.
    Like a tag team they can increase your monthly costs to much more than what we
    are looking at now. If you don’t pay you lose the use of your computer and the
    programs. Without new laws being instituted we can be put into a major trap. Other programs like Intuit’s Quickbooks are paying close attention to how this turns out.

    • Microsoft still sells Office for use on one computer with a perpetual license. Microsoft still knows a lot of people only need it on one computer and they only upgrade Office when they buy a new computer or buy and install the upgrade once every few years. They even lowered the price from Office 2012. As for their Office 365 Home Premium subscription its a better deal than Adobe’s CC subscription. You get Office Professional (Word, Excel, OneNote, Access, PowePoint, Publisher, and Outlook) for use on up to 5 devices. and you also get 20GB of Skydrive cloud storage, 60 min of Skype calls per month, and if you are away and have access to a windows 7 or 8 computer you can temporally stream Office to use on that computer. You also get all version updates. All this for $99.99 a year or $9.99 a month. And this is NOT an introductory price. This is a much much better deal than what Adobe is charging for just one application. Not every company is doing what Adobe is doing and going 100% subscription. The other companies see no value of giving up a revenue stream. Even Autodesk lets you keep your current version of software as is when you stop your subscription.

  268. Scott,

    After reading you post and skimming the replies, I was wondering.

    How mych does it hurt when you step on your dick wearing baseball shoes with sharpened metal cleats.

    Best wishes in you next career.

  269. “made by people with a much higher pay grade than me. ” Owning NAPP, and Kelby Training I am sure there are few people at Adobe with a higher pay grade than you. Don’t get me wrong you created a great group with NAPP and you deserve the $ but I wouldn’t play “poor mouth” when shooting with the top of the line equipment. I can see the die is cast but I am trying to figure out how NAPP will fit into this since the software will constantly be up to date and I have heard the cloud will offer much more training…NAPP ?? Kind of of like when Apple would see a good third party software and then put it into their OS. Seems like NAPP is on its last legs….most photographers I come in contact with are 95% Lightroom and NAPP issues 10% of mag and web training to Lightroom. Sort of like NAPP using Apple products for all your training but in PSW and classes I have taken, when the instructor asks for a show of hands the USES, THE PEOPLE PAYING YOUR BILLS, 75-80% say they use a windows pc.

  270. I will not risk access to files edited with a CC version if I were to stop renting. This includes access to all my layers, masks and adjustments etc. as saved after processing. It will be safer to stay with CS6.

  271. Sounds like Adobe was only thinking about professionals using Photoshop when they made this decision. So there’s a special price this year for those of use with CS6 to get the cloud version for $10 a month currently. When will this change and what will it change to? I just paid to upgrade to CS6 and just can’t justify a monthly fee on top of this. Adobe should have done some market research before such a drastic move! Guess CS6 could be the end of the line for many of us photographers.

  272. Hi, not directed at Scott, Matt, nor NAPP who do a great job representing the community and are in a bit of an unfortunate position here. This reflects my ideas after both this article and watching the latest edition of “The Grid”.

    I do have to say that I feel that I’ve been manipulated by Adobe. I already own Photoshop CS6 and LR4. After agonizing a few months, I finally signed up for CC on my way home from Photoshop World in Orlando, at the $29/month intro price. I didn’t really NEED the complete CC, but thought that Illustrator and InDesign might be useful. The biggest thing I’ve gotten so far which is of real use to me is a few of the new features already added to “CS6” but only available via CC, like the ability to use more smart filters.

    Had I waited a bit I might have opted for just PS CC. But the real d4rt in the a$$ is that although I have CS6 and would qualify for the new $19/mo intro price for the CC which Scott mentions here, and I haven’t seen publicized anywhere else, I’m apparently committed to the old promo price, I could have found better uses for that $120. I don’t suppose that Adobe would do the right thing and retroactively give at least some of us that break.

    I’m also troubled by the inability to buy the software. I think the idea of ‘rent to own’ makes sense. Sure you shouldn’t be able to rent for a month and keep it, but if I’ve rented the CC for say 18 months, shouldn’t I have the option to retain access to a feature-frozen version. Scott’s reaction to Matt’s joke about making laptops ‘subscription only’ shows this side of the coin.

    Also, I’m not sure that the idea of LightShop is really that different than Elements. Why not just through a few more things into elements. As a longterm software developer, I know that it’s a fallacy that stripping features out of an existing application saves money, it’s additional development time not less. Software isn’t like hardware, the manufacturer doesn’t need to buy chips, cases, screws etc for each copy.

  273. I am watching The Grid but you are talking about pricing would i take it for 10 dollars a month yes but again its not 10 dollars for European users its 24,59 euro a month for the same plan thats 30 dollars. Two its dubble so at that point its only 11 euro more. I hope pricing is lowered for European users because now we are ripped off. At the moment i am on a student license until end of year but pricing to continue with Adobe is at this point to expensive.

  274. Will I be able to pay in one payment for the year instead of monthly payments?

  275. So its clear Mr. Kelby is not siding with the paying customers but with the corporation milking those stupid cows.
    Time to forget who Mr. Kelby was. Time to stop spending money on anything he uses to milk the same cows.

  276. I have a hard drive with a back up of all my photographs. If there is a fire I am grabbing my wife and the hard drive. I can’t have my photographs held hostage by Adobe.
    Time to switch.

  277. Spend your guys’ valuable time talking with ADOBE about this. Posting here does little good! Call them, write them, be persistent.

  278. This is only the tip of the iceberg from these blood suckers I felt sorry for them when I see people using illegal software not any more they are as bad only in a different way .
    Also you will find other software company’s are and will start doing the same as it gives them a licence to print money and greed changes people are all our plugin software going to start going the same way they will if there is a bigger buck to be made .
    And it won’t stop there they are never happy wit a good profit they want more , more , more

  279. Mr Kelby Adobe don’t even recognize the discounts for Adobe products that you offer when we purchase from Australia online to Adobe – they certainly no how to bleed the $$$ out out of us

  280. I had an email from NAPP to say all these messages where going to Adobe I hope that’s right Scott .

  281. Scott, simply, I’ll upgrade to 6 and that is it. No more Adobe. Sorry Scott, no more books published or written by you will be purchased by myself. Goodbye.

  282. I’m not a professional photographer and not crazy about $20/month, but really, it’s not that much; I spend close to that every day on lunch. But one concern is compatibility with my existing plugins, which cost plenty enough on their own, and I’d reasonably expect each of those vendors to charge an upgrade or annual support fee to fix whatever it is that Adobe continually breaks with a string of ‘updates’.

    A few comments here have suggested that it’s ‘time to look for an alternative to PS’. Now that would be something! Name ONE, even ONE possible PS alternative. I can’t think of anything that even comes close to what PS is.

    Yes, Scott and company have always seemed like eager Adobe promoters to me but I’ve always gotten my $99 of value from being a NAPP member and expect that will continue, CC or not.

    • I agree $20 is not too much per month, but are you willing to pay $20 forever? Because the moment you stop paying, your files will be useless. Moreover, what’s to stop Adobe from raising prices down the road to $25 or more? Finally, under a perpetual license system, Adobe had to introduce new features to the CS. What’s their incentive to innovate now when they get subscription payment from everyone every month automatically?

  283. I just realized one very important fact. With CC, there is one and only reseller; Adobe. Zero reseller competition. No money will be made by Best Buy, B&H Photo, or any software reseller for selling Adobe CC products, and that probably should be the biggest wake up call to us all.

  284. One other question. When you buy CS6 or any of the other packaged Adobe products you know what features are in there. With CC, it seems the major sizzle they are selling is that you’re paying for a promise of ‘future wonderful things on a nearly continuous’ basis. OK Adobe, WHAT will those? How FREQUENT?

  285. I’ve read every entry (Yes, I need a life). Here are my thoughts …

    1) Change is always resisted. Good, bad, or indifferent – it is also inevitable. Many digital media services are rent only. It’s a pay-for-access world we are going to. Music (iTunes), books (Kindle), and movies & TV (Netflix) are examples.

    2) There is no doubt that Adobe will come out with a software (FREE) that will make all images (PSD and DNG) that will be read only. Kind of like a PowerPoint Viewer is to the PowerPoint program. (You will be able to view your files, print, share, etc. – just not edit them.)

    3) I don’t get the “Cloud” for photographers. I get the whole subscription thing, shared settings, etc. I just don’t see any value in putting any huge files into a cloud. 20-30 gigs (whatever it is) would last me maybe a couple weeks. I already have a free Box account for the few images I need to share. I do see some value maybe for the other programs in CC besides Photoshop.

    4) I think the “$10 only for Photoshop users” only is being pushed way too much – it’s temporary.

    5) If the CC is such a great thing, why not for Lightroom? Maybe the base isn‘t big enough “yet.”

    6) Why not offer CC subscription and buy-in at whatever version (current upgrade) that the program is at when bought? Probably because it would be a nightmare trying to keep up with complaints of bugs at each level.

    7) Why not offer a Photoshop version based on use? 0-40 hours per month (HPM) pays $xx
    , 40-80 HPM pays $xx, 80+ hours pays $20 per month. (I rent a car or hotel room I don’t pay for the whole month when I just need a few days.)

    8) Posters claim they are pissed and leaving PS for good. Some will – many won’t. Emotions are running high. There are other great programs out there but I can’t afford to spend time learning a new one. I doubt others will too in the long run – and hey, PS is an awesome product. If I’m wrong, Scott will regret the name “NAPP” and probably have to change it to the “National Association of Digital Photograph Manipulators.” That way they can teach
    other programs that Adobe doesn’t have a hold on. (I know, they already do!)

    9) Scott is probably sick to his stomach being “The Messenger.”

    10) The volume of complaints here (and elsewhere) will cause something to change with what is first being offered here by Adobe. Let’s hope it’s not worse!

    11) I still love Scott! He does a great job! And guess what – almost everyone will be back to read his blog tomorrow – and the next day – and the next …

  286. Adobe can put everyone at ease with one simple solution – Allow anyone on CC to “opt out” at any time with whatever current version the software is at that time. That would ensure everyone using the program(s) the ability to keep working on their current files and for ever have camera support with their current cameras. This solution would put alot of people, myself included at ease.

  287. Folks, there are some good discussion regarding Adobe Creative Cloud on macperformanceguide.com. Check it out.

  288. Scott, I want to call you a prostitute. Except that, it wouldn’t be fair to prostitutes. At least with them, what you see is what you get. Not someone like you who pretends to be independent, but lick Adobe’s ass, just after they’ve had a dump.

  289. This is a move Adobe is making because they were unable to provide meaningful upgrades that compelled a lot of users to upgrade to every new version. What is shocking to me is instead of creating a new source of revenue by adding a subscription model they are just taking a chance that a subscription only model will have a larger revenue than having a perpetual and subscription model. The mixed license model is what most software makers have or are moving to. Not going subscription only.
    What makes Adobe’s move shocking is that in 2012 Adobe’s subscription licensing only accounted for 15% of their total revenue according to Adobe’s 10-K SEC filings.

  290. Right on! I’m not ready to join the Cloud, but it’s nice to know the options from someone I trust and knows, what’s going on!
    – Thanks Scott. When will you be here in NYC again?
    [As an aside, right now I own Photoshop CS6, Illustrator CS6, Lightroom 4 and an antiquated version of Dreamweaver. For now, that serves me well! But I’m surely glad I got them all! I needed to when I went to Windows 7! ;)
    – Take care and please say hello to Jeff Kelby and Larry Becker for me. ~Roz Fruchtman (in NYC)
    – BTW, I am sharing this post with all who would be interested!

  291. Enjoyed the latest Grid show. I love the subscription for adobe products as I can’t afford the street price for all the products. I feel that what I’m paying for Creative Cloud will be cheaper in the long run than what it costs for the whole suite.

    • And when a situation arises that you cannot afford the Adobe and the many company’s others that are going to follow you are left with nothing other than a empty wallet

  292. I buy photoshop, I pay a price upfront, I own the software, I use it as long as I have computer hardware that will run it. I join cc, pay a monthly fee, and when I stop paying the monthly fee I no longer “have” the software regardless of my hardware. Simple math to me. I will probably upgrade to cs 6 and use it until I find some other “bricks and mortar” style own-it-forever bit of software and try to become more proficient and creative in my photography and even less reliant on software to realize my vision. I don’t like being strong-armed…

  293. Sorry Scott, but no way there …

    1. CC will cost me three times the price in the long run.
    2. The big deal do not let me choose to pay for the products i need.paralleling the cost in relation to the products used … which is the value for money is the first argument of our choices. We can’t operate so, no more.
    3. Whether you are new or loyal customer, the price remains the same, past the first year. This is not a way to treat a customer.

    So we are launching a petition

    http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model?utm_campaign=share_button_action_box&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition

  294. cloud
    as an option is ok – but – forcing users to the cloud is pure
    domination. i dont like this style. i do not want to be dominated. i am
    adobe-customer since 1993 (early psd) – i never will move to a
    subscription-model. adobe software is a product which i want to own
    (like my car). imagine: crysler moves to subscription-only salesmodel.
    for me its a greedy move from adobe. with cloud they can treat customers
    like hostages.

    • I agree with the above It is time that Adobe is sent a strong message they are blood sucking vampires.
      I hope it is the truth that Scott is presenting all these comments to his buddies at Adobe (It was stated in a email I received from NAPP )

  295. You stated in answer above: “the last figure I heard was over 500,000 subscribers”.

    When you think about it that’s not very many people who subscribed considering it’s worldwide. I would like to know the number of people actually bought the software instead of renting it.
    I believe the move not to offer the software as a ‘non CC version’ is just a ploy/force to get more people to subscribe.

  296. WTF ! One is erasing comments there ?

    Never have had any erased comment in that place …
    Won’t come there again. Adobe voice, there, finally.

    Ho! … While i’m there … You loose something like 5.000 listeners and customers.
    Have a nice day, however.

  297. Wow … sure sounds like Photoshop World is a planet suffering from a drastic loss in population …

  298. I subscribe to the complete Creative Cloud and have for almost a year. I find it more cost effective than buying the whole suite of programs. I recommend it to anyone who uses a variety of Adobe’s applications. It is expensive, but the best products always are. The applications are the same as boxed product, only they are updated whenever something new is released. I could not afford the complete suite, but now I have access to all Adobe’s great software for only $49.99 a month. That is a manageable expense.

  299. So Scott is still going to be a spokesWhore for Adobe with their Milk-the-Masses-Monthly subscription-based model? Hello GIMP!

  300. Goodbye Adobe, Goodbye Scott, Goodbye NAPP!

  301. BTW, Scott. How much did they pay you to shill for them this time?

  302. Since I can’t seem to get an answer anywhere else (asked a couple of Adobe places, no one returns my call… so to speak).

    So say I purchase a year subscription of CC via Amazon and pay up front. Say I want to subscribe for 2 years and I’m willing to shell out for 2 subscription cards (or however they deliver the codes). Can I put both keys in on the same day and boom, have 2 years of CC? Or do I have to wait for one subscription to lapse and go buy my next year then? OR… if I do one year, am I “forced” to pay for the subscription through Adobe, or can I buy another year from Amazon and use this code?

    And yeah, I know. Subscribe through NAPP! I’m just thinking that one day Amazon or another e-tailer might offer a “super amazing, gotta buy it now!” deal on the subscription card. ;-)

  303. It’s rent with no option to buy!

    Say I want to buy a house, I have the money, but I discover it’s no longer legal to buy, I can only rent and the price over 3 years will be the same as it would have cost to buy. three years after I can no longer pay the rent because I lost my job, now not only am I on the street with no place to live, but I have nothing to show for the money I spent on the rent! How is that good for consumers?

  304. okay so I pay 19.95 per month ($239.40 yr) for the cloud base, and the price of the standalone is say $700. With an average run of the software before the next up grade is 2 years…

    So Cloud for two years $478.80
    Bi yearly upgrade stand alone = $700.00+

    Am I thinking correctly?

  305. Scott, i am totally ashamed at you. You are just taking the Adobe’s stand on this pricing issue and you are in no way listening to the little people out here. I personally think you are providing Bad or Misinformation in your blog post.

    For example, my next copy CS would cost $700 – well that’s would not be true if Adobe had kept their current pricing model. I upgrade each release – so i get the upgrade price – last upgrade – from CS5 to CS6 i paid $215.41 – A far cry from the $700 you quote

    Second, in their pricing model, i would pay say $10./month for the first year for CS CC with photoshop only – but then the prices raises radically to $25/month. I can not afford that cost.

    Next, i would not have an option for CS extended or not . My mac is maxed out – I can not handle their EXTENDED code – nor do i need it .

    Currently in their pricing model i have a choice.

    Next, Adobe says that the Cloud would be great for collaborative efforts, well, drop box and you send it are FOR FREE, i don’t need or want the ADOBE CLOUD.

    If Adode’s issue is piracy – then let them find a better way to deal with it. I am an honest person. – never have stolen one piece of software or item in my entire life. So, the many are being punished for the few.

    My only option is to stay with CS6 perpetual and Lightroom – for now.

    And, so, Mr. Kelby – since nothing is Changing this is what will happen for you

    I no longer need my NAPP membership – which i have had for many years. I have gone to 3 PSW conferences and, had planned to go again this year. Well, guess what – no need for that.

    So, actually knowing your stand has helped me save a bunch of money

    NAPP annual membership $99

    Kelby.com annual membership $145

    once every other year to PSW well over $600

    Thanks for saving me the money. I can spend it on local photo classes and, i don’t need you guys anymore

    Scott it must be nice to have Adobe either pay for you software or your company hand it to you for free.

    Think about those of us who don’t have that luxury.

    I’m going to look into canceling my memberships to all Kelby related training.

    Debi Anderson

  306. Scott
    Sorry I think you are misleading people, The $10 fee/monthly is only good for 1 year. After that it goes to $20/month. In addition I would expect you to support Adobe 100% and not sure you could be unbiased.

  307. You are really great at manipulating, Scott. Your enthusiasm is really nice. OK, I know 20-30 bucks a month for an American is nothing but let’s look at Europe and 40-60-pound monthly payment for CC. That’s something like 500-700 (depending on what you already own) pounds a year. Let’s count 3 years – it’s 2000 pounds, which is like 3200 bucks. Now tell me, Scott. Do you think that’s a such a great idea to get CC? I already ordered upgrade to CS6 which is like 1000 bucks. I really want something I really own, I can install and use whenever and wherever I want and pay even 2000 bucks for this rather than pay monthly.

  308. One of the main question was not answered here. When you stop subscription you cannot open your work anymore, what then?

  309. I wish that one of the well-known industry leaders would have the guts to call a spade a spade. (Granted, Kelby is probably the least likely candidate — and for good reason.) It’s the obvious spin in this little Q&A that irritates me the most. I love this journalistic flourish:

    Q. Wow. Renting doesn’t sound so bad now.
    A. I know, right?

    Whatever. Let’s not pretend that this deal saves us money. A careful shopper can do better buying up front. It is only the individual who doesn’t have the cash flow to make the upfront purchase that definitely benefits (tax planning reasons aside).

    Every talking head wants to ignore the major objection that most users are screaming from the rooftops because they have no good answer: Once you step down the path of CC you can’t get off EVER without losing comprehensive editing access to your image library. You are committing to send Adobe a monthly stipend for the rest of your life. That’s ridiculous. I wonder, Scott, if you also advocate renting a house instead of owning. Do you also advise the average person to lease their car instead of purchase it? What a sham.

    • I agree Arnold Newman for some people it will save money and that’s what is being pushed – the real injustice is that you are bound to Adobe to the grave then of course they say you can still use CS6 that you own and ye that will be fine for the short term long term we are screwed after all the years of respecting their copyright and always purchasing legal versions supporting Adobe this is what we get shame on you Adobe .

  310. I am disabled. I have been a cheerleader for Photoshop since the 1990s. I can’t tell you how often I’ve been offered ‘free’ Photoshop but my answer has always been ‘No, I want to do the right thing.’ I upgraded every 2 versions not because I’m stingy and don’t want Adobe to have my cash but because my only income is Social Security and I do not make money with my photography pursuits. I have been entrusted with a large collection of old family photographs and negatives and dvds and flash cards and jump drives dating from the 19th century up to today, doing restoration, conservation and archiving them as digital files for future generations. I spend every possible waking moment doing this. I already live a life uncluttered from any sorts of ‘luxuries’ such as restaurants, takeout coffees, pets, new clothes and the like because I can’t afford them. I’m worried that if I take the step to join CC my files will not be useful in the event something happens to me and I cannot continue the subscription. Would my grandchildren be able to access my digital files in the future (talking about 10 years span, not 100 years)? What do I need to do to ensure this possibility besides printing every image and document as a real life artifact, which is impossible? I’m confused and lost.

    • If you are current with CS6, I believe it will be all you need for a couple years. Nature abhors a vacuum, and there will something soon enough that will replace what we had. Adobe has opened the door for an enterprising company to take a HUGE bite of their market share. This will end up being bad for Adobe, but good for us via the new competition….

  311. Love or hate the new forced leasing, please vote in this poll at DP Review. It will not be a waste as DP Review seems to be in contact with Adobe.

    I am also posting a second link to: Photoshop CC: Adobe Responds to reaction. It is a DP Review interview with Adobe VP of Creative Solutions, Winston Hendrickson and Bryan O’Neill Hughes, Senior Product Manager for Photoshop regarding the backlash.

    If you like the lease only option you better get to voting because currently only 4.3% out of 5752 people think it could work for them!

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/05/08/Adobe-CC-Creative-Cloud-Complaints-Poll-of-Photographers-Photoshop-users

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/05/08/Adobe-photoshop-cc

  312. Scott!!!!

    Don’t blame you one bit for having enough of the nasty and misinformed!

    Know, this, I Think You Are Awesome!!! Told you in DC PSW 2012 “Thank You for all you do!”

    Once again, Thank You for all you do!

    I do get the Q&A! Ps CC subscription for $10/$20 is great!

    Photoshop Elements boxed for $60.00 is always an option and does more than most will use!

    I do subscribe to the full cloud, use InDesign, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Lightroom, Illustrator and want to tinker more with Premiere. $50.00/month. I spend that on wine on the weekends and/or gas to go for a “pleasure” drive.

    Really sorry you took so much misguided (and bizarre) heat!

    I love you man!

    Doug

  313. Does this sound like a good agreement to you??

    http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2013/20130508_1a-Adobe-legal-agreement.html

    They even need your date of birth??

  314. If I could make a meme of Scott Kelby’s reaction it would read “Thinks Adobe CC is fairly priced…Worth millions – gets it for free.”

  315. This really does read like an Adobe press release. Objectivity and neutrality will go a long way toward preserving your reputation.

    The bottom line is this approach is actually cloud-based licensing to increase consumer costs and control piracy. The software is not cloud, only the license verification is, plus the ability to download new versions if you are under a subscription.

    Costs will go up for buyers, which is the bottom line.

  316. Maybe Scott Kelby in Support of his client base the people his living is made from
    Change from Photoshop user website & training and support other software company’s in a much bigger way .
    Of course he would have to way up the side benefits he will lose from Adobe then again no one is forcing him to do that as he has choice .
    Adobe say they are giving us choices so much for the years of loyalty buy their software .

  317. Scott, I appreciate everything you do for our community. I’ve been a Photoshop user since 3.0 and a loyal NAPP member for over a decade. I think the Creative Cloud is a good deal initially but I’m highly concerned about it’s long term affects on my profession and pocket book. My main concern is obviously not owning the software. I’m 40 years old and I don’t want to lock myself into a situation 15 years from now where Adobe is fleecing me because they know I’m not going to be interested in converting every Adobe document and learning completely new software and workflows. I never thought I would say this but if Adobe does not change their plan to allow customers to own something after a certain amount paid into the cloud I am gone.

    The writing is on the wall people… if Adobe doesn’t change their business model you are setting yourself up to be screwed down the road.

    • Right on! Unfortunately Scott doesn’t seem to get this or would just rather not address it. Apparently more convenient to focus on the $10.

      • The reason Scott does not get this is
        * Has a little bit more of the $$$ than we do so money is not the issue and cannot think that it should be.
        * Adobe & Scott have a interest in each other

    • Here here it is the long term not owning the software and locked in its a worry

  318. A lot of those comments seem calculated to dance around the two or three main objections, to wit: I’m renting, I’ll never own the updated version. In the past, when I paid for the upgrade (usually about $200) I’ve owned the latest version of the software. All of these retorts supposedly debunking all the negatives act as if I’ve had to buy a full version every generation. Second, it’s a sizable price increase, when compared to upgrades. Two upgrades every 18 months means $400 every 3 years. Now, exclusive of the one year discount, I’ll be paying $720 for 3 years. And I still won’t own anything. Another issue is that most of us have, often, skipped a generation if the “improvements” didn’t make us sing and dance. Now, I’m locked into “improvements” whether I want them or not. Another thing that concerns me is ACR. Will they stop adding mew cameras to ACR for CS6 and when? A new generation of camera would force many to switch to CC, thus negating the “just keep using CS6 like you always have” argument.

  319. Scott, I gotta say, you really did not address the MAIN issues people, like myself, have with this new system. Your points about those who use more than two programs being a good deal is true. It’s tremendous for those who use three or more. But here’s the rub for photographers that you completely ignored: The basic math, any way you twist it, doubles the price even for those who updated Photoshop every update cycle. The math: Currently it’s $199 every two years on average, with the added feature of having a finite cost, and being able to make my OWN decision about when to upgrade. If I decide not to upgrade I still have the old software to use. The new deal? The price for two years is $480!!!!!!! It more than doubles the cost AND with no end in sight! This 240% increase in cost HAS NO END! The car payment analogy you used is also flawed; your car payment HAS A CONCLUSION at which time you OWN THE CAR FOREVER!! And what about the future that certainly has increases coming… I’m just not sure how you can support a 240% increase for users, NO end in sight, NO ownership of anything, and if someone moves to the middle east or Africa, they are just out of luck. The geographical restrictions you did not even address.

    C’mon, Scott, you are smarter than this. Do you REALLY not see the trumpeting, angry bull elephant in the room? Seriously? If this truly is something you down deep in your gut support, I seriously misjudged you. Wow, I just really don’t know how you can “lead” 70,000 members of your club off a cliff and sleep at night.

    And I agree with you, that this is how the industry is going, well, fine, but it’s all in how you go about it. Adobe’s attitude toward long-time customers who played by the rules for MANY years (12 in my case) is “Screw you, you don’t like it? There’s the door.” Not “We’re going to do this in two years, get ready…” or some sort of two-year commitment that includes a suspension option that stops the upgrades, but at least you can continue using the product. SOMETHING! Alas, Adobe just does not care about it’s customers, plain and simple.

    This whole deal is NOT good for Photoshop users, period. HOW is it you cannot see the obvious third grade math?

    My opinion? You simply do not have the balls to stand up to them publicly and side with your NAPP members for whom this is NOT a good deal. You are clearly intimidated by the Adobe mucky-mucks. MY previous high opinion of you and your organization has now substantially changed for the worse. You truly are nothing more, at this point, than an extension of their marketing department, and NOT a true leader of Photoshop users just at a time when they need it the most.

  320. About pricing in Germany:

    Photoshop CC is 24,59 € a month.
    An upgrade (e.g. CS5 to CS6) has always been 279,99 €.

    I can`t imagine that anybody could really argue that there is a benefit for PS users and it`s not a rip-off.

  321. so one upgrade every 18 months €279.99 vs 18 month of photoshop CC €449.82 how is that convenient? not only that, but if I do not pay the rent for CC after 18 months I’m left with nothing!

  322. I may be joining CC but I may have to use my NAPP dues to pay for it.

  323. My question is how does this effect ACE certification? It looks to me like this money grabbing stunt will eventually invalidate it.

  324. Let me try to crystallize the real issue here that has people so upset:

    In the past, long time customers, used to a long-established way of Adobe’s managing of the Photoshop software, were able to reasonably predict how things will happen in terms of payments, release of updates, etc. Now, suddenly, without warning, Adobe announces a seismic shift in the logistical relationship with customers and the price to have access to the software.

    Here’s the n