So I’m reading a review of the new features of Photoshop CC over on Mashable.com, and of course it takes all of three seconds for it to turn nasty, where a commenter accuses the reviewer of getting paid by Adobe to write a favorable review, because after all, if it is a favorable review of something he doesn’t like, the reviewer is obviously “on the take.” He wrote:
“#letsbereal — How many free months of Photoshop CC did Adobe offer for writing this…”
Essentially, he’s saying ‘You said something I disagree with, so you must be getting paid.’ If you say anything positive about the Creative Cloud, like this reviewer did, you get attacked (The funny thing was that the reviewer mentioned how he didn’t like the rental model, yet he was still attacked for liking the new Photoshop features and not siding with the angry mob).
I know this all too well.
When Adobe announced their new subscription plan, the day after I wrote a post here simply addressing some of the misconceptions I had been seeing out there. I did a Q&A where I addressed everything from the misconception that you ran these programs inside a Web Browser to the misconception that you have to be connected to the Internet every day to run Photoshop. I was trying to help, since I knew a lot of the answers. Huge mistake.
There are 662 comments on that post. About 656 of them are direct personal attacks on me, many saying, essentially “I said something you disagree with, so I must be getting paid.” The other six were probably spam. I have literally had people emailing me, and coming up to me in person while I’m out on the road with my tour apologizing for the unwarranted public flogging I took. But that’s where we are today. If any one reviews a product of any kind, and you don’t agree with the reviewer for whatever reason, the reviewer must be getting paid because your opinion on this is so obviously correct to everyone, that only a person getting paid by the company could see it any other way than you see it.
Nobody read where I said, flat-out, at this point I wouldn’t recommend the Creative Cloud to photographers. Nobody seemed to acknowledge that I wrote in-depth about having direct discussions with Adobe about my concerns and the concerns of the 70,000 NAPP members I represent. In fact, I wrote “I've given my opinion [to Adobe] to the point that I can't believe they would actually continue to take my calls.” Yet still, I read again and again how my post was “crafted or written by Adobe’s PR dept.” Geesh.
It’s not just Adobe
This isn’t my first public trashing. I’ve had it nearly as bad once before, when I did a post where I said I was going to buy an iPhone. I didn’t review the iPhone. I didn’t tell other people to buy an iPhone. I just said I thought it looked cool and it had the features I wanted, so I was going to get one. I read comment after comment asking how much Apple had paid me to say I wanted an iPhone, because after all anyone that wants a phone different than that they want is obviously being paid off.
It’s Getting Better Now, But….
Well, last week the Creative Cloud products were released to subscribers, and while I was hesitant to even mention it (which is just sad that it’s come to that), I did post on Facebook, Twitter and Google+ that it had been released and I mentioned that my favorite CC feature was the ability to apply Camera Raw as a filter. It’s one I’ve been waiting years for. I’ve begged everyone at Adobe I know, and it’s finally here, and I love it even more than I thought because it’s faster than I thought it would ever be. But I made the mistake of mentioning it. Cue the haters.
For example, I read this comment:
“I’m going to ignore anybody promoting Photoshop CC, Scott – just cannot afford it, so stop teasing us poor people. Will have to be stuck with CS6 for the rest of my life ;-)”
If you have CS3, CS4, CS5 or CS6, a Photoshop CC subscription is $10 per month for the first year. Two cups of coffee. That’s it. If you can’t swing $10 per month, perhaps Photoshop shouldn’t be your biggest concern, but this is just typical of what I’m reading — not just on my posts, but anywhere somebody posts anything positive about the Creative Cloud.
By the way, the old deal was this: Photoshop is $700. Take it or leave it. Now, anyone can subscribe to Photoshop for $20 a month. I think that’s progress (unless you fear the idea of people who don’t “deserve” to use Photoshop will now actually be able to afford it and become your competitors).
The Entitlement Factor
Another thing I read a lot, still, is from people who skip upgrades complaining that Adobe is being unfair to those “loyal customers.” In fact, in that Mashable article, I read an argument from a guy who skips three releases before he upgrades. I’ve got news for you. You’re not an Adobe customer. Let’s test this theory.
Go to Best Buy, ask for the store manager, and complain about how much the new 4K TVs cost and let him know that he’s being unfair to you, his “loyal Best Buy Customer.” Here’s how that might go:
You: My name is Bob Johnson, and I’m one of your customers.
Best Buy Manager: OK Bob, let me pull up your records here. Hmmmm. I don’t see any purchases in 2013. Did you buy anything from us this year? No? Let’s check 2012. Hmmm. Nothing there either, Bob. How about we check 2011. Gees I’m checking there and I don’t see any purchases from you in 2011 at all. Let’s go back to 2010. Oh, OK, wait….here it is. You bought something from us back in April of 2010.
Me: Guess what Bob? You were a Best Buy customer. Yup, back in April of 2010. But Best Buy doesn’t consider you a customer any more. Now, I’m sure the Best Buy manager would like to have you back as a customer again in 2013, but buying something back in 2010 doesn’t keep you as a customer entitled to gripe about…well…anything. Customers are people who buy a company’s products on a regular basis. By the way, if you’re still using Photoshop CS5, it came out in April of 2010. Just so you know.
So when I read people whining about how they’re entitled to upgrades and entitled to this and that, I just shake my head in amazement. Maybe I should go to Exxon and complain how I’m somehow entitled to $2.85 a gallon gas because that was the average price of gas back in April of 2010. By the way, that was probably the last time I bought gas at an Exxon station. I wonder if they still consider me their customer?
I know you’re waiting for an Open Letter to Adobe from me
I still get letters each week from outraged people asking why I haven’t risen up to be the “voice of the people” like I did back in November 2011 when I wrote an “Open Letter to Adobe” here on the blog about a policy Adobe had announced (but totally flew under the radar) which had to do with the cut-off date for when users of CS3 and CS4 would be eligible to upgrade to the Creative Cloud. I didn’t know about it until I read it on an Adobe blog, and I called Adobe out on it, asking them to consider giving those users more time, and thankfully Adobe reconsidered their policy and moved the date until the end of the following year. Very fair I thought, but it was your comments that changed Adobe’s mind, not my letter.
So, where’s my letter this time? When I wrote that letter, it was asking for something very simple â” move the cutoff date. This is a totally different situation. This is a multi-billion dollar software company, the 6th largest software company in the world, re-inventing the way they do business forever. The software industry is changing faster than ever, and the development, engineering, costs, delivery and methodology of how software is created today is in a state of rapid evolution.
This new plan isn’t something Adobe decided on a whim â” this is the biggest change in the history of Adobe, and one that I’m sure has been considered from every possible angle. I’m certain an open letter from me would be accepted as warmly as I would greet Adobe telling me how much I need to charge for my products. There is a line, and me telling Adobe what to charge for their products, is clearly over it. The public is responsible for telling any company what “the right price” is for their products, and the market always determines what that price will be, which is why you see sales, rebates, deals, and price changes on everything from cars to cameras.
You can’t name a concern you have that I didn’t voice to Adobe before their official announcement. I didn’t just write a letter. I sat in front of them, face-to-face, carrying your message forward but there are some things that I just flat-out have no control over, and no right to interfere with, but yet…they are listening.
Look, Adobe is listening
How could they not be? They read every article. They read every forum comment. I’ve forwarded every single email I’ve been sent directly to the executives at Adobe because I want them to hear from the people I represent.
Yet, haters are still waiting for someone, anyone, to mention the Creative Cloud so they can say the same things over and over again that they’ve been saying since the subscription-only plan was announced. Believe me, Adobe’s heard it. They’ve read it. Adobe realizes all the concerns around pricing for photographers and about the whole file access/editing thing if you ever leave Creative Cloud. This subscription-only plan is still new, and like any plan, it can be tweaked, improved, and modified (but it's not going to be reversed), so hopefully now we can take a deep breath and start looking using the new features we've been waiting for.
By the way, posting the same exact thing on every forum you can find and publicly knocking anyone that disagrees with you doesn’t help your cause. It actually makes you seem like a troll or spammer. When you see 300 negative comments but then realize 150 of those are by the same few people making the same point again and again, makes Adobe or anyone else realize “this isn’t as bad as it looks.”
When I did write an Open Letter back in November of 2011, Adobe did respond but it was two months later. Big multi-billion dollar companies are like aircraft carriers — they’re not speed boats — it takes them a while to turn. Give them a chance to digest all the feedback; consider their options, and give them the benefit of the doubt.
Haters — prepare for a shock
One thing that drives me kind of crazy about the haters is that they feel that everyone out there feels exactly the same way they do. They feel like everyone hates this new plan, it’s universally bad for everyone, and Adobe will soon be in huge trouble financially for it. They completely ignore the fact that there were 500,000 Creative Cloud subscribers already in the program before Adobe announced the Subscription-only deal. These are people who felt it was a better deal for them, and for their business, to sign up for the subscription plan than it was to continue the old plan. Well haters, your day is about to get worse, because this news kind of flew under the radar but Adobe just announced that in just a few weeks, more than 221,000 more people jumped on the Creative Cloud subscription plan (That’s 221,000+ in one quarter alone and that was BEFORE the new CC Apps were available for download).
They now have over 721,000 subscribers, and it’s growing at an incredible pace. The fact is, there are a great many people who feel the Creative Cloud subscription plan is perfect for them, for their needs, and there are a ton of new Adobe customers who could never even dream of using Photoshop that are now becoming Photoshop users. That is cool!
I still feel the same
I still feel that the deal isn’t there for photographers yet. But I talk to Adobe all the time, and I know they are considering lots of options and possibilities and I know one day, hopefully sooner than later, I’ll be able to say “Hey, photographers, now it makes sense.” It’s just not yet. No one will ever acknowledge that I wrote that.
But the tide is starting to turn
A few weeks ago, it was all negative. I just went through the Mashable list of comments (there were plenty), and son-of-a gun the tide is changing. 721,000+ people are already on the Creative Cloud. By the end of the year, it’ll probably be over a million. There are people out there totally digging it, and they’re starting to stand up for it, and let people know what it’s really about and that it can be really great. They’re going to the forums and writing positive things, despite the trolls and haters, even though they will be accused of “Getting paid by Adobe.” Just like I was.
So what am I going to do?
I’m going to move forward with what I’m supposed to be doing — teaching people how to use Photoshop and Lightroom, and by gosh that’s exactly what I’m going to do. I’m tried of arguing about it — I want to get back to using it. I’m going to go back to reporting what’s going on with Photoshop CC; I’m going to talk about the new features, and I’m going help people along their path and I’m going to continue to voice your legitimate concerns to Adobe.
I’m going to ignore the haters, the trolls, and just move on about my business of teaching, evangelizing, and enjoying the coolest software product ever. If you’re coming with me for the ride, I welcome you along with open arms. If this is the end of our journey together, no worries — I understand, and maybe we’ll meet again one day. :-)
Cheers everybody and thanks for letting me get all this off my chest. Now, I just can’t wait for Apple to release that iPhone 5s. ;-)
All my best,
Never bite the hand that feeds you!
RC…Quick to judge…How do you know that I am not referring to Adobe rather than Scott ??
I forgot my smiley face!
ok..you are out of the penalty box
“One thing that drives me kind of crazy about the haters is that they feel that everyone out there feels exactly the same way they do.”
That’s what you get when everybody is tweeting, facebooking, etc, etc — all one-way communications. Monologue instead of dialogue. Conversation, my foot.
And I agree with you. I am a reviewer/tech analyst. Whenever I say something good about QuarkXPress, I feel like I’m a traitor and I deserve to die.
I feel your pain, Erik.
Scott … so up until this point the full version of Photoshop has not been for me (could not justify the cost) … With CC it now becomes a much more interesting propostion … but … Photoshop will always be only part of my photography workflow – right now I dip my toe into Elements 6 … and now there is Elements 11 …
On one of your Grid Podcasts you commented on the powerful features available in Elements and that should be the choice for a lot of photographers (instead of the full blown version of PS, Cloud or otherwise)
I don’t suppose your team has put together a video on the main differences … Love watching your stuff and I think something on the subject (staying away from anything to do with the SAAS model) would be much appreciated by many – especially me.
Keep up the great work – avid follower and soon to be subscriber (Kelby Training) …
I loves haters. They crack me up. I think you summarized it the best way.
Keep it up Scott. You’re doing a tremendous job and inspire many, many people.
I paid for Photoshop CC by reducing my mobile phone tariff. So now got something I do use for less than the price of something I don’t use.
For creative people, some of us (not me ;) ) ain’t half stuck in our ways at time.
Rock on Scott.
Honestly, I don’t get the anger that’s been directed at Adobe (and its defenders) over CC. Then again, the day job that supports my photography habit is managing a SaaS application hosting environment, so take this with as many grains of salt as you’d like. For me, first and foremost, it’s a matter of cost. I can’t afford to go out and buy Photoshop every year. But right now I have the latest version for what is to me a trivial monthly amount. PLUS – and this was the big one for me – I’m both a Mac and PC user. When you’d buy Photoshop in a store, you’d have to choose between the Mac or the PC version, or have to buy both. Now one subscription lets me have the software running on all my computers. So for me, Creative Cloud is a total win. I’ve read the articles and complaints and I think it’s coming from people who just don’t understand SaaS and also don’t understand that in order to keep releasing and upgrading and supporting products, a company has to be profitable. What a concept! If you don’t like CC, then stick with your old version or download GIMP. Simple as that.
Dear Scott, I’m thinking about new subscriptions, and I was wondering if NAPP membership gives discount for Adobe subscription?
Thanks Scott, thanks to make us have such a great experience with photography.
Keep it up and be bold!
From you previous post:
“Q. But Iâ€™m a photographer and I only use Photoshop. This doesnâ€™t sound like a very good deal.
A. If all you use is Photoshop, I agree, and I wouldnâ€™t get the complete $49.95 monthly Creative Cloud subscription â€” Iâ€™d just go with the $20 Photoshop-only monthly subscription instead.”
1) Photographers who have previously paid for Photoshop in full and many upgrades have spent a lot of money on the product already. When upgrading every time, the monthly average based on a 18 month product cycle is $11 ($200/18 months). So, I don’t think it is unreasonable for many to be unhappy about the $20 per month charge. Keep in mind $11 per month is what has been paid by people who ALWAYS upgrade.
2) For the same photographers who have paid the full version price and upgraded over the years, being told not paying every month will force you to use an older product that will eventually not work on your latest computer is a huge issue. I am in support of the cloud based system, but Adobe needs to be reasonable and not greedy. If the cloud system is just a different way of supplying the software and not a money grab, then like in the past, let users use what they have paid for. If you jump off the monthly payments, you should be locked into that current version of Photoshop CC as long as you made at least $200 in payments (the normal cost of an upgrade). If you want the latest and greatest down the road and upgrade, you would need to make up the payments you missed.
I hope these comments are not seen as hate, but just two common sense suggestions for people who have faithfully supported Adobe for many, many years. There is no reason faithful Photoshop users should pay nearly double in order to move to the cloud system and completely lose the CC product when deciding not to or can’t make monthly payments.
Hi Dan. Like you I don’t want these comments seen as hate they are just my two cents worth…
1. The current subscription for photoshop cc (as Scott mentions) is $10 for current owners of PS4/5/6, so that’s $1 less than the $11 per month upgrade you quote. Its only $20 if you don’t have a previous version.
2. I Agree that long term subscribers should have a version of PS when then stop their subscription, but $200 in payments is not enough considering PS6 was $700
Thanks for your input Graeme. Here are my follow-ups:
1) I should have mentioned the $10 for the first year in my post above. Subsequent years are $20. Adobe should reward faithful users and keep it at $10 per month after the first year.
2) I said above that people who have previously paid for a full version of PS should be able to lock-in their current Photoshop CC version after making $200 in monthly payments. Of course new subscribers would need need to pay the equivalent of a full version before locking in a version of PS CC.
Dan I agree with you about the single app price and ending up with a product after a minimum payment milestone is reached. I would also add I would be willing to pay for a Lightroom/Photoshop cloud combo at say $14.99/month.
BTW there is no reason to hate on Scott, or anyone else about what Adobe does. If Adobe gets more rational input, like Dan’s, maybe they will consider other options.
Here in Germany I would pay 17 Dollar first and then 34 Dollar for Photoshop alone. Bye-bye Adobe
Scott I watched the episode of The Grid a few days after your original post, There are always people with opinions. Usually there are more ‘keyboard warriors’ posting comments than people just getting on with it.
I too have my misgivings about some of Adobe’s subscription model, but I am on board now, and I’m sure that Adobe will address genuine user issues over time.
I don’t feel like I’ve being held to ransom, I feel quite the opposite, as a subscriber I get the latest features the day that they are available, no extra cost, now large bill to pay for the new version, which is a good thing.
There are a lot of people I know who have had the great benefit of a reduced cost of subscription by you persuading Adobe to open up the upgrade path. I know they appreciate it very much.
I agree it’s time t move on. And don’t take things to heart. If people have have something constructive to say then listen and then judge.You will always get some people that will only accept one solution (that matches their inclinations). Just look back to the 1980s when the battle lines were primarily IBM, Microsoft and Apple. There were haters then (and they are probably still moaning) and they voiced their anger via newspapers etc. Nowadays social media offers them an instant platform.
Let’s get back to the constructive side.
I knew the subscription model was coming down the pike when I participated in an Adobe survey a couple of years ago. I told Adobe then I didn’t want to rent the software. But it’s not hard to see a steady income is a better business model than the 18 month upgrade selling model. I hoped I could continue to buy it but their renting business model is not for me. I will continue to use the latest version of photoshop until it’s obsolete and then I will take my money elsewhere.
I did that same survey. I was solidly against it, too.
This seems spot on, if you need the latest features, then yes, make the ‘buy’ decision for the upgrade, if you don’t, then you should have the right to stick with what you have bought. Essentially, you have bought a product, the right to use should absolutely not be withdrawn. Adobe’s decision may seem anti-competitive, but its a little like leasing a car, but at least in that scenario you can actually buy the car, and not take up the lease option, whereas we now seem to be compelled to lease or find another means of transport…..
Hey Scott unfortunately there is no way to make everyone happy. There is always someone who can find a reason to complain. Just keep doing what you do there is so many of us behind you
thanks for everything
Very well said, Scott. I do have a question that could probably be answered if I looked it up, but what do you think needs to change for CC to become a good choice for photographers?
Why do negative things always have more impact than the positive. Keep up the good work and thanks for all the work you’ve done already!
Marijke from The Netherlands
Well said Scott! Haters are gonna hate no matter what! Lets get on with the show and learn, use and design with new way of doing things!
Well said Scott!
I too am tired of hearing the continuous barrage of hate directed at Adobe and anyway who says anything favourable about Photoshop CC! I took the early bird plunge into Adobe Creative Cloud and as a previous customer I was lucky to get a discount on the first year to the whole thing, I will probably move to Photoshop only after the first year when the price reverts to the non-discounted price.
Like SpikeHK I too use a PC and a Mac so I can use the latest version on both computers – this is a win-win solution for me. Paying monthly suddenly means that I can always have the latest version without having to find a lump sum every 12 to 18 months. I would also point out that this is the full Photoshop with all of the video, 3D and animation stuff included that used to cost more.
I also moved to Microsoft Office 360 recently too and this does represent a major cost saving as it gives you 5 licences for any latest version of Office on any device (Mac’s, PC’s and when it is released in the UK the iPad).
Here’s my take on the whole thing. I decided to go with the CC when it first came out. This was a financial decision for me. I couldn’t afford the whole extended suite, but I figured I could swing $50 a month. It’s about $1.65 a day. I get the latest version of all the software as soon as it’s released. To me, it’s a win-win.
There are things that I have decided not to waste my money on over the years, such as paying for TV service. In my area, basic packages are about $100 a month. To me, that is a complete waste of money. At least with the Creative Cloud, I have a chance to make money with my creations.
If you don’t like the service, don’t use it. Simple. Let your voice be heard through your purchases. If the price is an issue, maybe you can re-examine your spending habits. How much do you spend on coffee everyday? I’m sure that you can make your own and cut that cost down by at least half. Same with dining out. Again, these things will never help you earn a dime. The creative cloud is a tool. Sometime to do the job more efficiently you need the right tool, it’s just the cost of doing business.
I’ve been nothing but happy with my CC subscription and I don’t se myself getting rid of it any time soon. I am not being paid by Adobe to say nice things, if I were, I wouldn’t have to work a full time job and try to develop a photography business at the same time.
I can see renting an online application. You know…one that relies on cloud servers to run. That’s been the whole idea behind the SaaS model. I dont know what the hell this DRM software licensing is all about. If they had ANY competition it wouldn’t work.
Iv’e been commenting on the Creative Cloud FB page and getting accused of being paid by adobe, even after I point out I am on disability pension now and live in Australia, people think no-one should like the product.
If the haters put all that energy into being creative the would be rich
I hopped on the Creative Cloud wagon before the CC suite came out. Suits me and my business model. Simples.
Sadly enough in nowadays society having a grown up argument more then often ends up in a fight. Simply listening and giving a counterargument, it seems, is not political correct anymore. It seems to be normal that we yell at eachother and defend our position to the last stand. Have a look at american politics! Or any other country for that matter!
Now, I disagree with you on a couple of things about CC, but those things have been said before. I do agree with you on the ‘feel and emotions-side’ of this article. I actually salute you for throwingn this off your chest.
From somebody that disagrees on CC… Thanks for wanting to keep this discussion polite!
Now that is the truth Raymond, well said! How people can treat each other with such disrespect is beyond me. The virtual anonymity is the issue I fear, I just don’t think that people would converse in this manner face to face. It’s a shame that people can’t express their point without aggression, I’m all for constructive criticism. By the way Adobe photoshop is just such an incredible programme and hats off to their creative team. Yes, a Lightroom/photoshop package for 20 dollars a month (or 20 euros where I am in Ireland) with a minimal incremental increase plan, is I think a fair price plan for a huge majority of photographers and as soon as adobe do that I’m in ;)
Haters gonna hate. But, I am a retired person, living on Social Security and a small pension. My monthly expenses are more than the two combined, so each month I have to dip into the savings. I do hope the savings last longer than I do. I am a NAPP member and subscribe to Kelby Training. It’s a once a year expense and I consider it an entertainment (and education) expense. The $10.00 a month for CC would have to come out of the savings, so it would be eating away at the back end to keep up with the now. I have no problem with Adobe’s pricing plan but will have to have a plan for balancing things out.
I agree with everything you wrote, but the fact you felt you had to write this saddens me. I am a photography enthusiast but buying the full PS has always just felt a little too much for me. It has many tools I feel I would like to use on post, but I just cannot convince myself that I would use it often enough to justify the cost. I am still undecided if CC has made the most more or less justifiable. I also do not like the idea that should I stop paying I would loose access to any psd file, although LR reads them so maybe it is not a big deal. But this is Adobes choice and I just need to decide if it works for me, why other have to vent anger at those it does work for is beyond me
And even if you we’re getting paid for your comments, why would that matter. I would hope that your integrity would be that you would still only publish opinion you agree with. I did the same back when apple first made the white iBook (2001 I think). I was given one with the understanding that I would write about my experience
I have to Agree
People just need to get over it. Its not that big of a deal!
Scott. Thank you for that well considered response you make a number of very good points for some of the features of Creative Cloud and Adobes approach. I like that you also say that it’s not quite there for photographers yet.
Personally, where I think Adobe is missing the boat is the sense of “ownership” of the piece of software being purchased. One thing Adobe could consider is a two tier subscription model, wherein a user pays more per month and after say two or three years the software becomes “theirs”. The other would be a lower price point where the end user has o continue to pay to use Photoshop etc. (the analogy being a car “loan” vs a “lease” This gives users a choice and addresses the psychological aspect of “owning” what they have paid for.
The challenge people are facing “budget wise” is that this “one more thing to subscribe to which has to be paid monthly”, whereas even at the single price point for ownership, one could save for a while and then allocate the cost as a one time fee. The innovation that Adobe continues to show doesn’t come in expensively for them internally, and its fair that they are paid for that ingenuity. Unfortunately for me as a part time amateur photographer, the CC offering is sadly not quite there yet.
I don’t think two tiered pricing is needed. When people reach payment milestones, they should be locked into that current version. For instance, photographers who have already paid for a full version of Photoshop would lock-in the current version of Photoshop CC when they reach $200 in payments (the normal cost of an upgrade). After that, the choice is theirs to keep paying for new features or stay put. If at some point they jump off the monthly wagon and later want to upgrade for the latest and greatest, they would need to pay for the payments they missed.
I do have one little bone to pick with the above, and that is about the software checking in with Adobe.
On MY (emphasis on MY because it may not be the same on anybody elses) installation of CC, every time I open up any of the CC programs it is checking in with the mother ship. How do I know this, Because every single time I open any of the CC programs, it prompts me to log in with my Adobe ID. If I click on cancel, the program does not open. That is not once a month, nor once a week, not even once a day. It is every single time that I open any of the CC programs. And I have the full line up not just Photoshop, because not only do I have a photography studio, but also run a graphic design business.
sometimes it will also spit at me and tell me that I have activated on too many machines and therefore have to deactivate a copy to activate this copy. That would be cool IF, I had it installed on too many machines, but I have one desktop that I use all of the time, and one lap top that I have it installed on just in case I need to take it to a client, but never actually do work on.
Hi Dave, I think it might be just your machine installation. I have the cloud shut off most of the time and I can operate photoshop cc with no problem. I read in the forum that you do have to check in periodically, but not every day. I’m set up to check for updates monthly and it works just fine. You might contact Support and have them reset you and reinstall CC.
My installation is doing exactly the same thing.
So the easiest way to prove Adobe doesn’t REQUIRE an Internet connection but once a month (less if contacted in advance and a request for delay is put in) is to simply run Photoshop with no Internet connection. I just tried it. Worked perfectly. Perhaps you didn’t understand how the check in part works?
I run a photolab – and the software we use to receive orders has only ever been in this for – though thousands of dollars a year.
However, unlike Adobe, we are charged exactly the same amount as a US based company – though we are in the UK.
The world is now a global market – so if something is bought or subscribed to, if it is sold in the USA at $50, I should be charged $50 in the UK, plus the appropriate local tax. Adobe are very naughtly (they are not the only one!) as they charge sometimes almost double plus local tax.
I have been an Adobe subscriber since last year – I like the way it works – AND I can run a copy on a Mac and one on a PC – you could never do that on a physical copy – so for me its much cheaper! If only Adobe didn’t charge so much more for non US customers. They argue its for local support. I don’t need to pay 40% more for colour instead of color.
I noticed when upgrading lightroom the other day that because Adobe UK is actually based in the Republic of Ireland that we have to pay the Irish VAT rate which is higher than the UK because the download comes from Ireland. Another way of extracting more money from the non-US user base.
In fairness that extra goes to the Irish government – which, I think, is in an even worse state than the UK’s. We can’t do much about government VAT rates – but Adobe should charge a worldwide price. Fuji did this when they brought out the S5 – and as a result there was no “gray” market either.
Great post Scott. I am not moving to creative cloud. I have PS6 and quite happy with it. I do most of my work in Lightroom (just bought version 5). I have no real need for the new version of Photoshop. But (sit down please) you will not see me flaming Adobe, you, or anyone else over this issue. I guess I am just more mature and well adjusted than the haters, as are most NAPP members.
However, if you bashed CC I just may have to post something about you being on the take from the Apple Aperture team. ;)
Be thankful Scott, you have posts more lovers (and customers) than haters (who last bought from you in 1979).
Well said! Let’s hope from this point on the ‘Haters’ (polite term) go and put their obvious excess, crude energy into something constructive as opposed to using it to try and make everyone else’s day as crass as theirs by filling comment fields with abuse.
Oh and just for the record, if Adobe were paying all the folks who ‘do’ like and say good things about Creative Cloud, they wouldn’t remain a Multi Billion Dollar Company for long :)
Onwards and Upwards,
I am an advanced amateur photography enthusiast. It is my hobby. Photoshop 2.5 was the first version that I used and I faithfully upgraded to each new version as personal finances permitted. That said, I cannot justify the new model for my personal use.
I do not ‘blame’ you for Adobe’s decisions, no do I believe that all positive reviews are paid for. However, I am aware that many companies (Microsoft, for one) do ‘subsidise’ positive reviews of their products.
Unfortunately Adobe’s choices have forced me to make choices of my own, including dropping my NAPP membership; which has nothing to do with NAPP, I am simply no longer a Photoshop user. I will not spend any more money on Adobe products – either Lightroom or PS Elements – how long until Adobe decides that these belong in the cloud?
OnOne Software is a wonderful alternative for an amateur photographer. No, I don’t work for them, I just think they make great photo editing tools for users looking for non-Adobe products.
They do produce great software that both integrates and can work alone. And there are many other tools out there. Photoshop isn’t the only game in town, but they were the best. CC just opens the door to alternatives.
Haters gonna Hate. They always find something to go off about.
Lovers gonna love, Love what you’re doing, keep it up!
Hell if Adobe want to pay me for a good review I be in it but have said that I would not need to be pay by then to say how great Photoshop is.
PHOTOSHOP ROCKS !
get a Life haters if you do want to read about a great review then just stop reading then.
Scott and the gang at NAPP do great work as does Adobe just think you good be stuck using Paint in Windows or what ever it is on the Apple side.
I’m not move to the Adobe Creative Cloud yet but I will when I can have some spare cash to.
So in the end of this I say,
Less Hate more Love
Fanbois are as bad as ‘haters’…Just sayin Pot meet kettle
Are you sure you’re not a carpenter? You hit the nail squarely on the head. Great Blog!
You are sitting in an untenable position. On one hand your bread and butter is on training for Adobe PS but on the other hand do not control Adobe corporate direction. Years ago I did not walk to and from school 2 miles uphill both ways, but software was free (or close to it). The quote by Bill Gates, “There’s nobody getting rich writing software that I know of” did not come out of the ether but was based on what was going on at the time.
Fast forward if a software company wants to ensure a revenue stream which is both consistent and measurable the rental model is the way to go for them. The personal issue for me is since photography is not a F/T occupation for me the rental route is not something I wish to go down for PS.
Going forward, I am hoping that Lightroom stays as it is. I can do most of what I need in Lightroom and I picked up a copy of PS Elements to fill in the void that Lightroom does not fill. I did pick up one of the PS competitor’s products but it just did not seem to fit my bill.
I know this is a bit long winded but just to make it even more so. Just thinking on going forward perhaps Scott and NAPP when describing how to do something (ex Photoshop User TV) could also describe an alternate method using PS Elements (if it exists). More work but a possibility to expand your influence (especially since I read in the comments that someone was dropping their NAPP membership since they do not use PS anymore).
The last point is that Google normally has a good pulse on things. They bought Nik Software, they have a simplistic package called Picasa (that does facial recognition). If Adobe pushes too hard (bring Lightroom into the subscription only arena), they might just put some effort in the photography market and push their products. Perhaps they might see something like having companies pay them to be included in some type of print modules as a pretty good revenue stream for their work and be able to keep the consumer buy in cost low.
Sorry for the diatribe and please feel free to ignore.
Bravo Scott, Very well said!
Nicely said and written, Scott!
I took your advise and did the $10 Photoshop only deal. I currently have CS6. Once I found out from Matt K., that I could still have CS6 on my computer … that sealed the deal. I figured if I didn’t want to continue with CC, I’d just stop my subscription after the year and continue with CS6. Right now, the only thing I like about CC is Camera Raw as a Filter and the new image resize. I really don’t use mush of the other new features at this point.
I really like your idea of a photographer’s CC program without all the Graphic Design stuff. However, I will continue with CC for the year and see how I like it. You know, this country is just full of folks who think everything is owed to them, and they are always angry about something. I’m blessed to live in a country were you can express your thoughts without being persecuted or shot, but some of the vitriol BS that comes from folks is sicking! Just look at what happened to Corey when he put out the CC info on the NAPP web site last week! He was putting out something interesting and useful and 75% of the comments were hateful stuff … unbelievable!
Thanks again for all you do for us! I’ve learned so much from you, Matt, RC and Corey; and I appreciate it all!
I wasn’t going to comment because I’ve already made my opinion known. But, as you said, “Adobe reads every forum comment”. Now that the dust has settled, I’m glad Adobe is continuing to innovate and people are enjoying CC. I’ll continue to use CS6, not because I can’t give up 2 cups of coffee a month (I hate that metaphor), but because starting next year I have to pay $240 a year just to continue to use the product. As a photographer only, Photoshop CS6 and Lightroom 5 is the best choice for *me* and I’ll continue to use that solution unless a better choice comes around. And, I am very glad I *own* both of those tools.
For those whose best choice is CC, and I can see many disciplines/situations where it is a good fit, I am very glad you are enjoying it. And, apparently if you write a favorable review, you get a couple months free. It must be true, I read it in a forum comment.
I haven’t understood the barrage of hating. I used Photoshop 7 for years before I upgraded to CS 5 (and that was given to me as a gift from my son). My philosophy is use what works until it doesn’t. So when people got mad I thought, well just don’t buy it and move on. There’s no need to have a heart attack over it. I just don’t have time to type all the rants and frustrations. As soon as I think the new PS CC will benefit me then I will change, until then I rather focus my energy on getting new clients and building a career.
As I said in the last big post you referred to (I was neither a troll nor an attacker — just voiced my displeasure on the policy as it applies to amateur photographers), CC just isn’t a good value for amateur photographers, especially at the increased price. It seems that Adobe is content in splitting their customer base in two. Those who want to pay to play and those who don’t want the one size fit all category.
For those of us who have full time jobs in other fields, Adobe products have always been elective and discretionary. And that led to other purchases that were elective and discretionary. What they have done is help this group re-evaluate whether the value is going to be there and whether it’s worth investing money into this new model.
I do think Adobe has misjudged the halo effect caused by us amateurs who love technology. The bloom is now off the rose. And once good will is lost, it’s very hard to regain. You’re right, times are changing and software licensing is changing. I’ve known that for years because that’s the industry I work in. But nothing can happen if no one speaks out against those things they see as bad decisions (true, on both sides).
What I’ll be curious about seeing in the coming months is whether NAPP will evolve to serve both audiences better: professionals and amateurs. Most of the focus (all?) has been on pros but I bet amateurs make up more than half the membership. Since Adobe is content to encourage us amateurs to split off from their products I wonder if NAPP will broaden to incorporate us?
Hey Scott, I do work for Adobe and yes, thankfully, they pay me… However, again, thankfully, I’m not an Adobe decision-maker so hate mail directed toward me is a useless exercise. :)
I love this post Scott. As I read it I sensed both your frustration and enthusiasm for Creative Cloud. Obviously this is a challenging and exciting time at Adobe! I can only add that the Creative Cloud message from Adobe leadership is a commitment to quickly and consistently add more value to CC. Breaking the cycle of annual updates and moving to release-as-developed updates is exciting! Adobe believes that more and more Creatives will bring Creative Cloud into their workflow as they see this consistent stream of value pouring into our product(s). As you stated in your post, the growing number of subscribers indicates we are beginning to make progress in showing CC value.
Maybe I’ll suggest a new marketing play at Adobe… Adobe, silencing haters – it’s our job. :)
Scott, One think I learned through all these years (and one of my favorite sayings) is that dogs don’t bark at parked cars.
Take any position on anything and the dogs all come out.
I love the CC and enough has been said about it that I don’t need to add any more. Takes away too much time from working on my images.
For me, Scott’s the photographer’s everyman, able to voice an articulate, reasoned and balanced opinion that I most always agree with, and if I don’t (and that’s quite rare)…well…he’s still my everyman. And if you can ignore the venom in those hater rants there’s a certain degree of humor to be derived.
For me, Scott’s the photographer’s everyman, able to voice an articulate, reasoned and balanced opinion that I most always agree with, and if I don’t (which is rare)…well…he’s still my everyman. And if you can ignore the venom in the hater rants there’s a degree of humor to be derived.
I recently joined CC, but only for Photoshop, because that’s all I need. I am not a huge fan of the “software rental” business model, but I have a strong feeling that it is the way of the future. I feel more and more software companies employ this strategy moving forward. So, while not a fan of it, I’ve adapted and accepted it. Kinda “eat or be eaten” type of adaption.
That being said, I have no problem with the price at all and I’m glad I made the move. I’m not a world famous photographer and Adobe doesn’t even know I’m alive…aside from once a month now.
Haters usually come out in droves when the mention of iAnything, Jesus, or (in the South) your favorite football team comes up. The fact is, the better something is, the more reasons people look for not to like it. I wouldn’t, and don’t, put much thought into any of the nonsense…I’m too busy adapting ;) I’m also not paid by Apple or Jesus…
Scott, I totally agree with your points. Not that I’ve read every comment on the subject but the one option that i haven’t seen thrown around is this. Let’s say I’m a creative cloud member for a few years and I love all the new innovations and so forth and I decide that I’m done and happy where I’m at. Currently I can’t stop paying or I’ll get thrown back to CS6. How about a buyout price to stop at where I am? A lump sum payment so sort of buyout my contract. Almost like buying out a car lease at the end of the term.
Outstanding post, Scott. I’ve been a user of EVERY version of PS for a decade. I’ve typically upgraded the day the new release was issued and have been a beta tester for the last several versions. I love Lightroom too and use it daily. That said, I agree with you. CC isn’t right for me yet. I’m disappointed. I hope there’ll be a change. In the meantime, I’m sure that Adobe is MUCH more likely to listen to you than me. Thanks for what you’re doing.
I haven’t subscribed yet because I don’t have a reason to so far. But, If and when (It’ll eventually happen) Adobe offers a Lightroom/Photoshop package deal, I’ll jump right on it.
Keep up the good fight, Scott.
Scott … without a doubt the arguments against … or for CC should be based upon logic and not emotion. I don’t hate Adobe, though, I do not have any appreciation for the CC licensing model as it currently exists. However, your offering today has too many holes in it’s logic to be addressed in a single comment. Suffice it to say, that to feel vindicated because Adobe has 721,000 CC subscribers to date is of little meaning when you consider they had over 12 million traditional customers prior to the introduction of CC … in fact they sold 4.1 million Creative Suite licenses and 4.3 million single point product licenses for CS6 products in the same time they sold their first 500,000 CC subscriptions … when customers had a choice for going forward. Remember, those who purchased CS6 products had to be using CS5 or 5.5 in order to qualify and were fully expecting there would be CS7 products as well when they upgraded. Even now, CC subscribers account for less than 9% of the CS6 user base … and by Adobe’s own projection … they do not expect to surpass 3 million CC subscribers until late 2015 … If CC is such a positive move forward … why aren’t more loyal Adobe users, particularly CS6 users, storming the gates signing up for the subscription?
Well said, BillBob. Thank you for making a well constructed counterargument. It bothers me that those of us who disagree with Adobe’s new pricing model are discounted as “haters”. Unlike the reasonable points you raised, name calling does nothing to further the discussion.
Ummm so your argument is that because a brand new, never tried, completely different pricing model didn’t resonate the way a 15 – year – old model did, the new model is failing???? Yeah like that makes total sense – no way. The fair comparison will take place when we have 15 years of CC subscriber data to compare against the old model. What the 700,000+ subscribers do prove is that all the haters saying “NOBODY will ever buy in to this and Adobe will be out of business in a year” comments were bunk.
No, my argument is … when customers were offered a choice between the CC option and the traditional perpetual license … they overwhelmingly chose the latter. Even now with no choice to move forward to receive new features other than CC … Adobe themselves think it will take 2-4 years to match the sales units of single year for CS6 Suite adoption. I’m merely offering Adobe’s own numbers and projections … if you think them unfair … perhaps you should direct your questions to Adobe … not me.
So your argument just got weaker. If Adobe only needs 2-4 years to match what it took 15 to do under the old system seems like a home run to me. Perhaps it’s you who should direct your questions to Adobe.
You seem to feel compelled to argue with my offering rather than answering the question I posed …. If the CC model is such a superior offering … why isn’t the subscription rate growing at a similar pace as the perpetual model of a year ago? After all, it’s only the price of a few cups of coffee to get in the door … and it is the only option to move forward … So far, less than one in ten CS6 users seem to agree that CC is the wisest choice. What is holding those other 7.7 million users back from getting into the game?
BillBob you seem to feel that you are entitled to frame the discussion in a way that is biased toward the result you seek – i.e., to bash Adobe. I simply reject the context of your question and have phrased this in a context that is fair – which you are on record as saying you don’t support. I think I’ve made my point. Moving on given that I think anyone who can read knows what’s up. Adobe has sold hundreds of thousands of CC subs in a few months. Brand new business model being adopted at a rate that surpasses their original goals. That helps refute the notion that the few whiners who feel entitled to bash Adobe (and Scott Kelby) because they don’t like the business model, are a vocal minority. Have a nice day.
Yes, Mr. Bourne … you seem to be the unequivocal resident expert in fairness. However, I am not seeking to bash neither Adobe or Mr. Kelby. The sun will rise tomorrow regardless of how I feel about either. I only question the realities of the situation … using Adobe’s very own numbers. Your assertion that it took 15 years to attain 4.1 million sales of Creative Suite CS6 … and 4.3 million point products sold from April 2012 – March 2013 is interesting though … Surely more than one in ten of those users would find the CC model attractive enough to acquire … if it was indeed all that Adobe deems it to be.
LOL BillBob and you’re the guy who said fairness doesn’t matter. Read your own post. Like I said in the beginning. Says a whole lot about you and the fact that you ARE bashing Adobe makes me wonder why you’d be so silly as to think you SAYING you are not makes a difference. Muted.
I think you have me confused with the other Bill in this discussion when it comes to the topic of “fairness” … also … if questioning Adobe’s approach to projected CC subscription sales constitutes “bashing” … I find your assumption a bit troubling …
I think the answer if fairly simple, actually. If I have CS6 perpetual license, even if I think the CC model is a good deal, why wouldn’t I wait as long as I can to start the clock on the subscription? If the new features aren’t at a point that they are “must haves” for me, why not just wait to start the subscription? I would do this even if I thought the subscription plan was the greatest thing since sliced bread. It’s the same logic as not upgrading every version. I think you’d have to wait at least a few years to get through the natural cycle of people who don’t upgrade every version now.
Yes … reasonable logic … but why did so many choose CS6 over CC from April 2012-March 2013? It was the same software with all the goodness of CC … why did so many more Adobe users choose to wait to make the jump to CC?
For me personally, I was on CS5, so when I did recently jump to CS6, I went with CC.
I think from what I read on the internet of a lot of people’s misconceptions about the CC when it was announced that it was going to be the only option, and a lot of the concerns/worries over things that were not true played into that option. If someone believed that CC had to be run in a browser, or Adobe would “own” their files, or any of the other things I’ve read they simply would have chosen CS6. Since it was still an option, they didn’t make a stink about it, they simply said to themselves something along the lines of “I don’t want to run it in my browser, I’ll just buy CS6”
“The fair comparison will take place when we have 15 years of CC subscriber
data to compare against the old model.” – Not really. The fair comparison would be a choice which is no longer available.
“What the 700,000+ subscribers do prove is that all the haters saying ‘NOBODY will ever buy in to this and Adobe will be out of business in a year’ comments were bunk.” – Not necessarily, what data breakdown of these subscribers supports this? For those who use multiple products the CC model has value; however, for those who only use PS – not so much.
Nobody said it had to be fair – life isn’t fair. If anyone hasn’t learned that by now, they are in for a surprise.
Scott is right in that the customers will decide. Unfortunately there are those photographers who will feel that they have no choice and pay up. Adobe is free to choose their business model just as I am free to choose how to spend my money.
So Bill your advocating for a lack of fairness. Says all we need to know about you.
Please, sir, do not put words into my mouth. I do not advocate for a lack of fairness, I recognize that life is inherently unfair. As a nurse with over 25 years of Emergency Medical experience, I hope you never experience some of the things I have seen. A petty part of me would like to see you experience enough to burst your bubble of pomposity.
By the way ‘your’ should have been “you are” or “you’re”.
As an expert on fairness please explain how babies die from SIDS, children suffer & die from cancers and other diseases, why people experience alzheimer’s, or why a tornado will destroy one home but not the one next to it.
You, sir, appear to be what Scott wrote this blog post about. If someone says anything negative about the Creative Cloud, you attack; as evidenced by your responses to my comment as well as others.
I will jump in here. Bill you are comparing the CC to all of the tragedies in life is wrong. This venom is just ridiculous. Bill thank you for your for all you have done as a nurse. It takes a very special person to do what you do. Please leave the comparisons of the two out of this.
No, sir, I am not. Adobe’s move to CC was their business decision. The haters are those who act as though it is a tragedy. It was Mr Bourne who brought up the issue of fairness. The comparison was in response to the unfounded and unprovoked accusation of “advocating for a lack of fairness.” Venom would have been my gut response to you jumping into this conversation. Please do not tell me what to do.
All Scott Bourne is doing is acting on the message of your intended venom. Life sir is not fair. I have randomly asked myself how can one afford liscence products at 700.00 a pop every couple of years and then come out and hate, whine and cry when Adobe wants to go to a monthly subscription. That adds up to be less.
No one is telling you what to do here Bill I just think the way you compared CC to a tragedy is disgusting.
As far as jumping a conversation I will when I am on a public blog like this. Don’t tell me what to do either. Pull out your CS3 while the rest if us enjoy the upgrades. Maybe you should just stick with a point a shoot.
Well said Scott. This Bill is a huge hater on CC. I will gladly engage him in this conversation. CC is a great idea. I would not be able to afford and work in the latest and greatest Photoshop without the CC. Photography is t cheap these days . No one has ever said it would be. Thanks to Adobe I am now able to enjoy their flagship product
“Life sir is not fair.” – Thank you for repeating my earlier statement.
Even Scott Kelby has said that he “wouldnâ€™t recommend the Creative Cloud to photographers.” and “I still feel that the deal isnâ€™t there for photographers yet.” (Quote from this blog) Why haven’t you jumped on him as a CC hater?
I asked Mr Bourne for survey data to back up the claim regarding the “700,00+ subscribers” and how many of said subscribers use Photoshop alone compared to the suites. Still waiting.
This Bill started with Photoshop 2.5 and has paid for every upgrade since and currently has a perpetual license for and uses PS CS6. Most of the recent Photoshop upgrades were $180 – $200 every 18 months or so. Under the current pricing model this jumps to $240 over the next 18 months (20-33% increase) with nothing to show for this after 18 months. Currently there is no benefit for me to enroll in the CC.
In addition to my Canon DSLR and lenses, I also keep a Canon point & shoot in my car for those times when am out and unexpectedly find something interesting to shoot. I did choose a point & shoot that allows me control over the camera.
Nobody is saying that having the OPTION of subscribing is a bad idea (okay, maybe a few are – people who feel so betrayed they’ll say anything angry, and people scared of more competition – but there are outliers in any debate).
Subscriptions suit some people. But they really don’t suit others. There should be a choice.
Having no choice is bad for the customers and good for Adobe. There’s now little incentive for Adobe to innovate – they don’t need to impress people into buying an update. Have you seen how weak the new features in Illustrator CC are? There are many people who are CC subscribers who are choosing not to update Illustrator even though it costs them nothing, because the new features aren’t even worth the increased overheads and instability – they’re just tiny gimmicks wrapped around features that already exist.
The improvements to Photoshop and Indesign are mainly not so much innovations as things that are long overdue (e.g. 64 bit support in InDesign and camera raw filters in Photoshop). Probably, the work began and the budgets were signed off before CS7 was axed.
When Adobe introduced the option of subscribing, I thought it was a great move. But having no choice is bad for everyone, including CC subscribers: Adobe’s software will stagnate. It’s already begun.
(actually, it’s not bad for strictly everyone. In the medium-long term, it’s great news for Corel, Autodesk, and anyone who has found a way to monetise GIMP, Inkscape and Scribus)
Bill, I came to the same conclusion, that currently, at the given $240/yr. rental, it is more expensive for PS users to subscribe to even PS CC as a single app. Legit complaints by long-time members and others on limited budgets are entitled to their views being heard. Hopefully, Adobe will take note of the barrage of backlash. If Adobe is sincere in its customer satisfaction and input concerns, it would do well to at least take a second look at its options for rental and/or purchase. I also believe that many of the complaints were directed at Adobe and not Scott. Simply calling them “haters” is misplaced. (Dan Margulis in his blog, just recently, alluded to the torrent of complaints and felt that the current rental for PS is too steep in a reply to one of his readers.) Adobe’s current policy is more suited to large and mid-sized companies who use their products and can deduct a portion of rental fees on income tax. I think Adobe may re-think its policy and perhaps come up with a reasonable compromise toward the significant number of us who have made complaints.)
The reason why I’M not “storming the gates” to sign up for the subscription just yet (or at least upon product launch) is because I’ve typically budgeted to skip upgrades every other iteration: CS2, CS4 Master Collection, and now CS6 Master Collection. So I needed to take time to evaluate pros/cons, weed out misconceptions, and reevaluate and adjust my budget for an iteration out of my typical cycle; I upgraded to CS6 from CS4 last year (5/9/2012) because of other qualifications since I do not own CS5/5.5. The time between my purchases of CS4 and CS6 was 1006 days roughly breaking down to $45.99/mo which is just $4 less than the equivalent CC monthly plan. $4 is not a terrible hit for me. However I realize that I’m probably not like most who actually uses the entire Master Collection. “Storming” I am not, but “approaching” the gate is more appropriate as I’m going to wait till just before the offer ends on July 31, 2013 to take advantage of the $19.99/mo pricing for the first year which will actually save me money.
I’m honestly asking this genuinely out of curiosity … not to be a smart aleck … Why didn’t you go with CC when you purchased CS6? … it was available then as it is now ..
When it was available then, there were expectations that Adobe would be releasing CS7, CS8 and so forth. Now that upgrade path is no longer an option… unless I’m mistaken about this whole thing.
That was my whole point … as long as customers had a choice, they overwhelmingly chose a perpetual license model … also because CC is now the only option to move forward does not in of itself render CC as the superior option according to the current adoption rate, I don’t appear to be alone in that assessment … (that point of view should in no way be construed as “hate” directed toward Adobe or any other individual … purely an observation of the situation … I have no ill will or question those who have and/or will choose to adopt a CC subscription.)
I also agree that Adobe’s nomenclature for CC did much more harm than good. I really think their marketing department dropped the ball in a huge manner in presenting CC which added fuel to the fire unnecessarily.
You can’t adequately compare the CC model now vs the old model that ran in tandem with CS6 offerings. In the old CC model, it was more of a rental vs buying or a cheaper way to get in for newbies. The old model did not see any additional updates to the CC over that period unlike what they plan to do now that they have no perpetual license. If they offered a choice between getting constant upgrades in CC or waiting until the next CS version for the upgrades, you might see a shift in those numbers a bit.
To really get a sense of how CC is doing, what needs to be monitored isn’t the overall adoption rate of the two different models, but the adoption rate of those that upgrade every cycle (weeding out those that skipped a cycle or two and just happened to land on CS6) and also the brand new adopters.
With that said, they will probably on the same road Apple was with FCPX. They will have to listen and make changes regardless. And hopefully do a better job of communicating. That’s really been there weakest point.
Yes we can pick a few nits here and there when comparing apples and oranges … however, “if” Adobe had done a more thorough job of understanding their customers, packaging, presenting and marketing CC from day one … and … if it was indeed the be-all and end-all solution for the future … the adoption rate would have soared rather quickly to the point that perpetual licensing could have been dropped due to a lack of interest, not because it was too difficult and too expensive to provide along side the CC model.
As it is, Adobe is faced with either spending considerable time and effort mending fences … or consider the folks who are less than pleased with CC currently as a loss they are willing to accept.
Mr. Kelby, in his closing comment of this blog posting mentioned he is eagerly awaiting the nest iteration of the iPhone. (Tongue in cheek of course) Perhaps Adobe should have learned from Apple’s mistake and later correction to FCPX … and how they market iDevices … nobody has ever bought an iPhone because it is the only option … they buy them because they want them. Likewise, one should never be forced to buy a particular software because it is the only option … but because it is the best option for their needs.
Yes, you can still make some comparisons. My point was more to the fact that you can’t do it straight up. There are still a lot of unknowns. In fact, the current model is dependant on Adobe backing themselves up on 2-3 major updates a year as they have said will happen.
As I’ve said before, their biggest problem has been communication. When I’ve had to go to many different sources to understand a lot of the reasoning behind going to the subscription model, then they’ve done it wrong. Not to mention they still haven’t explained some of the major price differences in other parts of the world at all.
But its funny that you mention learning from Apple. Because they are actually doing what Apple does quite often. They are dropping a item and making changes before everyone else does even if customers become unhappy. Apple has a history of doing it (and just did it again with the Mac Pro)…and they seem to be doing just fine.
I fully understand your point. My initial response was to your question regarding “storming the gates” specifically. Unless I was mistaken, I took it to mean the rate at which users upgraded upon the date of release. Reviewing my purchase history, the only time I “stormed the gate” for an upgrade was CS6. It took me over a year after CS4 was released before I got on that. Just because a rate of adoption is high doesn’t fully and necessarily mean that it is a positive move forward either.
First, the way it was offered, many are always going to pick the hard copy over what was thought of as a “rental model” especially when everyone believes that there will be an eventual CS7 as James said.
Second, creative cloud itself was a horrible name that I’ve seen create some confusion. Mainly because Adobe has had to explain that the programs themselves don’t run in the cloud.
we are and have signed up.
I have read this blog for several years and have some observations. Letâ€™s take a hypothetical
post by a fictional blogger named Scott.
One day Scott posts this on his blog, â€œHey gang, recently I tried Brussels sprouts. I liked
them. You may like them, or they may not be for you. Have a good day.â€ And with that, the flame of controversy has been ignited.
The first group to respond are what I call the â€œEnergy Vampiresâ€. These people will suck the
life out of anything. Some of their responses will be:
â€œBrussels sprouts! We donâ€™t need any stinking Brussels sproutsâ€
â€œBrussels sprouts are expensive. Another elitist telling us what to eat. He must be part of a Brussels sprouts cartel.
â€œMy dog choked on Brussels sprouts and almost died . Oh My God, Scott HATES puppies!!!â€
â€œWe must stop this Brussels sprout conspiracy. Time to boycott vegetables. Whoâ€™s with me?â€
The next group to respond are what I call the â€œDefenders of the Realmâ€. They will back Scott up no matter what. Some of their responses will be:
â€œBrussels sprouts rock!
I put myself through college eating nothing but Brussels sprouts.â€
â€œMy photography was really bad but since I started eating Brussels sprouts my work has been compared to Jay Maisel and Joe McNally.â€
â€œIâ€™m a pro and real pros eat Brussels sprouts. You amateurs stick to peas and carrots.â€
â€œWhen will the Brussels sprout training videos be available. And a tour? Are you coming to my city?â€
There is another group. Iâ€™m not sure what to call them but they donâ€™t post a response. They read the post and think, â€œHmm, Brussels sprouts. Maybe I will try them or maybe not. At least now I know they exist. No need to post either for or against. I think I will get on with my
Tune in tomorrow when Scott writes, â€œHey gang â€“ for those of you who like Brussels sprouts, you can get them delivered fresh to your door for a small monthly subscription price of â€¦..â€
Unleash the hounds of Hell. The end of days are upon us!
Well said Scott. I look forward to your discussions on the new features. I for one would much rather hear about that than the tiring discussions from the haters.
Well said Scott, CC is the best thing happened to us.The cost is less then most people spend on lunch a week. Without CC I could not do all the things in available to do right now, I’m a hobbyist and love it. If we get CC for photographers it nay be even better but I may still use full CC to learn new stuff, its better then spending time in front of tv.
What an awesome post by you Scott. There are always haters and people who love to take others down. Remember when he walked across water, they immediately said ‘he can’t swim’. Please be duck like, water off your back. You are an inspiration and a source of amazing information to many more than the others. Remember ‘you can’t make chicken liver out of chicken s..t’. Please don’t let it bother you, keep doing what you do, we got your back !!!!!!!
Scott, you are spot-on with your comments! Well said once again. I can’t imagine how frustrating all the haters have been to you–almost as bad, maybe worse than the people clamoring for you to get right on an Android version of Light It!
There are several things that amaze me about all the haters clamoring against Adobe CC (which I love, BTW):
1) They have sooooo many misconceptions about how it works, vis-a-vis whether programs live on your computer vs. in the cloud, whether you have to always be online
2) The pricing issue. I’ll wager that some (not all) Complainers probably bootlegged their previous PS version at some point–one reason Adobe made this move (and other companies are also moving to this business model).
3) The Complainers don’t want to spend ANYTHING for upgrades. But if it were THEIR business they’d want to get paid.
4) Here’s the one that REALLY kills me–and I’ve seen this on the PPA LinkedIn group comment page–from professional, semi-pro/freelance photographers: They hate this modeling, can’t afford it are outraged that Adobe would do that to them! BUT — I’ll bet these Complaining photographers sell a disc full of photos, don’t charge adequately for them if they do; never register their photos with the US Copyright Office; and don’t license (but sell) their photos to commercial interests looking to buy them. Yes I’m speculating, but I bet I’m not far off.
5) And this is related to my last point: YOU DON’T OWN ANY OF YOUR PROGRAMS! You license them! Why don’t photographers who sell their work not want to do the same thing? It means more revenue for you! And it protects your intellectual property.
Bottom line is that Photographers looking to sell their unique works should adopt Adobe’s business model! That’s the ironic part.
And let’s face it, if your a pro/semi-pro/freelance photographer and make money with your images, you should be able to afford at a minimum $20/month for Photoshop & Lightroom and even $50 for the entire CC.
Last: I just upgraded to PS CC and Lightroom CC over the past 2 weeks. Love the upgrades! especially the new brushes in Lightroom and the Shake Reduction filter in PS CC. My additional cost? ZERO! If I had to buy the upgrades under the old model: $300. So do the math. If you just buy the PS/LR package of the CC, you spend $240/year, so you’re upgrade costs are more than covered than what you would have paid for a couple of discs.
Again, thanks Scott! And I can’t wait to see the number of comments this post balloons into .
Couple of things, how do you get Photoshop and Lightroom for $20/mth? I cant see that in my options box? Perhaps you could post the link.
Regarding pricing, the first full version of PS I bought was PS5, since then I have upgraded every time, I’m on CS6. After the first year discount, I’ll be paying $240 a year if I take out a CC subscription or if you look at upgrade cycles of 18 months, approx $360 per upgrade, around 75% more than the CS6 upgrade. No matter how much you earn form photography if every company in the photography industry (Canon, Nikon, MPix, Graphi Studio, Dropbox, Smugmug, etc) upped their prices by around 75% we’d all be in the brown smelly stuff.
I’m positive that CC is great for a lot of people, the bootleggers for example, who can now get on board and get hold of great software without a big initial outlay. However, no perpetual licence is again a big problem for a lot (not all, dont get me wrong!) of people.
As for photographer’s using this method of licencing, well, I do that with my sports images. Sites have access to my images for a monthly fee. And I got that idea from the big photo agency’s (Getty, Reuters) who have been doing this for years. It’s nothing new, just new to the software industry, whether it will work in the software industry is another post altogether! The one big difference? When the client stops paying they can still use the images that they have and thats one thing not on CC.
I was wrong about the $20/month for PS and LR. $20/month is actually the promo pricing for 1 year for ALL programs in the CC: https://creative.adobe.com/plans?plan=offers&promoid=KFHQB
BTW, if your client is licensing your images and they stop paying, then they do not — or should not–have the rights to keep using your images. That’s the whole point of a license of a product vs. selling them outright. If they keep using them you have a right to be compensated.
Thanks for the link, dont like to think I’m missing things!
Haters: Such is the benefit/disadvantage of the internet. Everyone has an opinion whether well thought out or not. The internet allows them to vent that opinion whether anyone agrees or not. John Nack over at Adobe was thinking about giving up his blog for that very reason. I guess the bottom line is if you are going to be “out there” you have to realize there are differing opinion on every topic, and you need to get a stronger front door lock.
CC: I am using the trial Photoshop CC and find the new “Shake Reduction” tool very valuable as an older street photographer with shoulder injuries and on onset of arthritis. I am discovering other enhancements as I go along. I would also like to ask Adobe why CC didn’t pick up the plugins and add-ons from CS6 as its getting to be a pain to re-install. I had also installed the trial LR5 previously and find it well worth the upgrade price (but still looking for a CC bundle announement before the $9.99 offer expires). The LR5 picked up the newer CC install as well as all the plugins and addons. Adobe: at least you can ask if the installer wants to keep PS plugins and addons.
CC ps: Its interesting that it took 1 day for the CC to be hacked, but thats another story.
Bundle: Hey, Adobe, at least say yes or no to whether the bundle will become a reality before $9.99 expires. Please don’t make me buy LR5 and the $9.99 only to find a CC bundle announcement a few weeks later. And yes, I am a licensee of both LR-LR4, PS7-PS CS6. I have to maintain a budget as a retiree with a high mainteneance (medium really) wife.
And to Scott: when the haters start to get you down, plan the next vacation and look at the last line on the bank statement.
Brilliant post Scott.. I don’t always agree with everything you write, but I’ve also faced the same sort of accusations.. like Adobe even care who I am, let alone enough to pay me for my opinion.
Subscribing to Creative Cloud is far cheaper for me than to buy the Creative Suite outright. Here in Australia it worked out it was cheaper to fly halfway around the world to the USA, walk into a store and buy a boxed copy of the Creative Suite.. than it was to buy a digital download. With the new subscription model, it’s far cheaper.
Scott sorry you have to step away from writing your great posts on photography and ps to explain yourself as you shouldn’t have to.
So how’s the weather down there? Going to be in Orlando and Sarasota on family vacation next week. Hoping to catch some great 4 of July celebrations on the beach.
Sorry to change the subject but I prefer to read your education posts.
So far, the creative cloud thing hasn’t been an option I’m ready to entertain, that being said, I think it does sound kinda cool and somewhere down the road, I may be making that jump.
In any case, I don’t understand the fact why so many people seem to think their opinion is the only one that matters. If you like something, cool, if you don’t, that’s cool too… but you don’t have to make others feel bad about their decisions and opinions.
I still love you Scott!! You’re my favorite tech author and I love your blog and Kelby Training too. Glad you can blow past all of the naysaying crap!
I’m not shocked by anything you said other than you read mashable.
Scott, Agree with you. I jumped on creative cloud for $10 a month and I’m happy with that. If I ever don’t like it I’ll just cancel my subscription .Now I think you should go back to doing what you do best, Teaching Photoshop and light room and creating great videos like the one you just created on sports. You don’t need to keep defending yourself all the time.
FYI: As it is now, your price will automatically go to $20 per month in a year. I truly hope Adobe keeps it at $10 per month for people who have already paid for a full version.
Change is hard for some. Consumers speak with their wallets, like it or not.
I love the products (they are not perfect), but they help me do my job more efficiently and cost effectively than other options I’ve tried. Maybe we could spend more time trying to build our businesses ans satisfying our customers instead of trashing people and products… Don’t buy it if you don’t like it, it’s that simple.
Kudos on a good post. Personally I was disappointed by the cloud announcement but I can understand the business reasons behind it. It is I think not cost effective to an amateur like me who would not be using it everyday. I had CS4 and was considering an upgrade, so I signed up for a summer course to get the academic discount while I could still get the hard copy DVD. Different schools and vendors have different deals, so I shopped around and the cost of the course plus the software
Good stuff, Scott. I think a normal, rational person can understand where you’re coming from. You’re an industry advocate and a trusted opinion. You have a top notch staff at NAPP and the blog here and I think it shows. Keep up the good work, there are people that look up to you!
First off, I support Scott for reporting what Adobe is doing. I’m one of the little guys that will not be doing CC because I just don’t do enough Photoshop. Of the 70,000 NAPP members, I would guess at least 50-70% will do CC. I’m not sure that Lightroom will be enough to justify continued membership.
I called these haters “Keyboard Soldiers”
There are “haters” out there, where you can do no right. There are “attaboys” who feel you can do no wrong. Somewhere in the middle is reality and common sense.
Its really simple $600.00 for nearly every available Adobe Application (one year subscription). All the upgrades and updates needed. Or, $700.00 for ONLY Photoshop and no updates or upgrades to the next version. Hmmm, I’m thinking it is a no-brainer! Way to go Scott, totally agree with you.
First off, Scott, let me say that I believe in your integrity.
If astroturfing by corporations weren’t a sad reality (I’m looking at you, Samsung and Microsoft)â€¦if there were no such thing as promoted tweetsâ€¦ if “native” journalism didnt disguise corporate press releases as “fair and unbiased reportingâ€¦if SEO were a thing of the pastâ€¦
.â€¦then perhaps there would be no haters accusing you of the above. There would only be enthusiasts who agree to disagree. Unfortunately, “if only” is a pipe dream at this juncture. So expect cynicism to rule the day for some time to come.
Thanks Scott. Well said. As a long time NAPP member, Kelby Training subscriber, & CC subscriber, I look forward to learning more about PS CC and LR5.
I have to wonder how people missed your original advice that CC isn’t a good deal for photographers as is. BTW, loved last weeks episode of The Grid with the advice to go with Lr if you have a choice between Lr and PS CC.
Well said Scott!
Great summary. There are too many negative reactive comments. I had decided NOT to buy Photoshop until the cc subscription was released in Asia. The small monthly payment is a no brainier. Consider the cost if you were to upgrade when every new version was released!
I never hated you, I seem to always like your opinions. (I am not an employee)
Great post Scott. Good, clarifying points. Personally I love the new model, as I’ll always be up to date, and can expand my business with tools I may not normally have access to.
Wait, just because we don’t like Adobe’s extortion, we are now called “trolls”?
Screw Adobe. Their CEO already showed his real face.
Canceling my Kelby training subscription as well.
Hey Jeremy — send me your last name and I’ll take care of that for you right this minute. :)
Nicely done, Scott! I love it! we don’t need these type of folks in NAPP or Kelby Training!
HA! Good one Scott – ban the trolls and save the rest of us from having to listen to people who are stuck on stupid.
So let me see Scott Bourne, if we don’t agree with you then we are stuck on stupid? If there is one thing Scott Kelby and the people at the Kelby Group have is integrity which is something you yourself seem to be sorely lacking today.
that’s exactly what I mean….classless
Scott, that probably felt good, but I think someone in your position, running a terrific business and employing lots of talented people, should avoid the snark. I went on a college tour recently with my daughter, and at an esteemed East Coast college, the admissions officer was very snarky to a mother asking a question, and my daughter’s reaction was to say “I’m not applying there”. When otherwise neutral people see you acting snarky, there is a real risk that your business will erode further.
You’re mistaken whose the snark here.
No mistake, Jeremy and Scott are both being snarky. But Scott is the one who gains the most by acting professionally and is the one I would like to continue to thrive in his business, hence my observation. I could care less what Jeremy does with his life.
I don’t know Scott. You seem like a genuinely nice guy so I’m disappointed by that sort of comment. I guess I come from a different school of thought on how to interface with my clients. But, my business isn’t internet based so I guess I know them all personally and wouldn’t take it so lightly. It doesn’t really matter if it’s all huff and bluff on the part of the grumpy customer does it? You are the person whose name is on the moniker. You shouldn’t be going around making snide comments.
After all this whole thread was about not feeding the trolls wasn’t it?
For what it’s worth; as has been pointed out many times now. This system keep being equated to buying the whole program outright. For most of us who have been paying Adobe thousands of dollars over the years we won’t be paying the full price each time. It’s measured against the upgrade cost. It just doesn’t add up – especially when you won’t be able to even OPEN your projects if you fail to subscribe any more. No programs license = no opening the files (assuming proprietary encoding with things like layers) you’ve already made. That just doesn’t make sense.
And while I don’t like Jeremy’s tone either – if you saw the Adobe CEO talking to the Australian press I think you would tend to agree that he’s too slick for his own good.
That’s a disappointing reaction Scott. I understand you are upset but did you really think this post wouldn’t create this kind of reaction from your readers?
“haters” – I WAS one who initially(and still not a huge fan) fought the CC Subscription pricing model. I am trying the 1 year at the discounted price but really hope you are right that they are looking at doing something for the Photographers out there who dont need the entire CC.
I also just wanted to acknowledge that you said, “Iâ€™ll be able to say â€œHey, photographers, now it makes sense.â€ Itâ€™s just not yet. No one will ever acknowledge that I wrote that.”
Thanks for that and I, for one, never thought you were saying it’s perfect for everyone…people just have a hard time putting themselves in someone else’s shoes. i.e.- If CC doesn’t make sense for them then why would it work for anyone else. It doesn’t really work great for me but I can appreciate that it’s great for some people! Just wanted to make sure you realized at least one reader noticed & that you have been acknowledged! :)
My 2 cents – Follow your own advice and do this…”Iâ€™m going to ignore the haters, the trolls, and just move on about my business”
Thanks and good night…
You must have a thick skin Scott. Or the patience of a saint. I don’t think I would be able to respond in a calm manner to the personal attacks you must get from this. I really want to say thank you for all the insight and tips you give away, plus the time you take to address these things. I actually like the subscription mod and the ease of downloading the software on demand. But, to each their own. Thanks for all you do Scott.
You just described my life as a blogger – THANK YOU FOR SHARING.
I subscribe to the Photoshop only plan. Personally I find the new features of PS CC, especially the greatly improved Adobe Paper Texture extension, to be worth every penny of my $9.99/mo.
Hi Scott, I think me and my wife are two of the best Creative Cloud’s fans. First of all we are not professional, we have other works and photography and visuals are an hobby. We are trying do all our best to become professional, but it’s hard and so now we are … pro amateur or bit more that amateur. For us creative cloud is the best thing adobe could do. We are Premiere and After Effects user, we don’t use only PS and a monthly fee have opened for us the possibility to obtain 2 completely license for 2 workstation. We never have the possibility to do this with perpetual license …
And by the way we have had the possibility to learn Illustrator, InDesign or the DPS… my wife is learning Edge Animate … we are not scare about learning … and we hope some day to be really professional … Sorry for my english. Guido (Italy).
FWIW I was already a subscriber to the Creative Cloud before Adobe announced the change to subscription only. I get the whole CC package for $29.99 for the first year. After that it goes up to $49.99. In retrospect I find I don’t use anything except LR and PS so when the year is up I’ll likely switch to the $19.99 PS only option and update my LR license. I do wish they’d have a LR/PS package subscription option though. That would work nicely for me.
One of the things that the haters and complainers seem to miss (ignore?) is that LR does almost everything, (if not everything) they need/want to do with images and bad old Adobe cut the price on it for them, in half! At the same time they made it much better. Man, was that ever greedy. And you can still license it just like always. And then of course there is PS Elements.
What the haters are missing is that the Creative Cloud version isn’t aimed at them. It is aimed at high end users who need way more power and options than the average photographer, people doing video, making movies, creating games, etc, I have no need of the 3D capabilities and I know there is a lot of stuff in PS that I don’t use. The average photographer probably uses less than half the capabilities of the Photoshop CC but hey, we like the cache of saying we use the bestest, most powerful software out there. Well folks, I’d like to drive a Land Rover but I can only afford a Subaru. That’s life. Get over it.
I think a lot of us are not worried about today. A lot of us who have been in business for a long time and rely on this software are worried about 3 years from now. We were on a skip-one upgrade model. CS2 – CS4 – CS6. All this does is tell me that the market is about to open up. If Apple has a product waiting in the wings (like it did with Final Cut) we’re ready to make the move.
We’ve already moved off of Microsoft Office. With our luck Microsoft will actually pick up adobe in a few years.
I hate the idea of renting software just about as much as most photography clients hate the idea of non-perpetual licensing agreements. Which way is the world going? Microsoft and the X-Box just learned a very important lesson. Adobe just needs one solid competitor to teach them the same thing.
Actually I can see Apple buying Abode – they have plenty of cash.
I wrote to Steve Jobs when the Microsoft purchase rumors floated a few years back; he ignored that part of my question and responded to a different part. I doubt Apple would buy them – though they did buy Logic. They seem more inclined to make a better cheaper version than buy a canned solution.
It’s always a possibility I suppose. That is actually one of my concerns with the CC model is that it makes it a more desirable target for takeover.
I doubt that will happen. Apple is a consumer company and places the bulk of its attention on the consumer market. Plenty of professionals and advanced amateurs use Apple gear. The new Mac Pro will certainly catch some attention. However, that isn’t the primary market for Apple.
Adobe is a company in the professional software market, even though it provides some consumer software. Also, Adobe creates a great deal of software in the Windows market.
These two organizations have different primary agendas and core customers. I doubt it would be a good fit for either.
Makes ya wonder if the haters are the ones getting paid to criticize reviews. Hmmm!
Some people are hired by companies to do that. Most recently Samsung was outed for hiring college students to trash HTC products. But not everyone who questions CC’s pricing is a hater.
Makes ya wonder sometime eh? Still people should be trained on how to read review.
It’s funny, if you have any issue with CC you’re labelled a hater. If you find great value with CC you’re a sell out. But no one seems to focus on the real issue: defining value. I personally question the value of the CC licensing for amateurs but I recognize that it’s great for other people. I would be interested in a discussion about which groups of users will find value in this new model.
I’ve used Photoshop since 1.0 and Lightroom since beta 1.0. But now I’m re-evaluating everything, including ancillary services I’ve paid for. Who knows, I may be saving a lot of money in the future…
Wow! Lots of good stuff, as usual, from Scott. Many years ago, I was attending a seminar on psychology. At the beginning, the instructor said, “I suggest you take this lecture as the cow grazes: that which you can assimilate, do so. And that which you can’t, let it pass through”. That’s the way I usually take things, and it prevents me from having to make judgments about the presenter. As for Adobe CC, I’ll take Scott’s and the psychologist’s advice and let it “pass through”.
Posts like this is exactly why I love you Scott. You tell it like it is and yes, the best thing is to ignore those people and keep doing what you’re doing. Nobody agrees on everything 100% and we sometimes need to “be still” and remind ourselves of that before posting all that negativity that at the end of the day really makes zero impact. But wow..this post…loving it!
About time you got that off your chest and certainly one of your best articles. thanks
For some people the Creative Cloud is all that they want i can see a lot of positive things for the subscribtion but its not all positive. I wrote a blog post and a Google+ post about it for the US is price is all right it could be less for non professional users (just like a student license) but European customers that pay in Euro curency its very expensive if you look at the US prices. You can read more here http://jeroenpil.com/2013/06/22/adobe-creative-cloud/ please note that you pay far more if you do not own a license yet, people that own a license are cheaper off. Also i compared the plans for full CC if i had done for one program only its 10 dollars or 12,99 euro thats for European people 16 dollars or 7,20 euro. If you read it it becomes clear that European customers pay far more then US people.
I also made a comment about companies that rent instead of buy.
I didn’t see a lot of personal attacks against Scott. I’m fairly certain the criticism and frustration was aimed at Adobe. I almost think this blog post is unnecessary.
People do have the right to be completely upset with the direction Adobe is going in, but hey, I’m thinking we might be seeing some competitors like Google or maybe even Apple come in and appeal to these customers. I think it would be good for Adobe to finally have a little competition. It works wonders for innovation.
And I also do want to say, I thought this article sounded like a child stomping his feet, because too many people didn’t agree with him. I’m not going to suck up and say I feel badly for associating Scott with Adobe. He works with them directly…he helps in one way or another to promote and sell their products. You can not have an objective opinion of a product when you are in a situation like that. It’s fine to give a review of CC. Go for it. But don’t turn around and talk down to your own user base for disliking this product. I don’t agree that Scott was payed for these reviews, but to say he has no association with Adobe is misguided.
TC, you make valid points. I, too, realize that Adobe has a significant monopoly on popular pre- and post-processing apps and can take the company in any direction it wants. I have a feeling that Adobe is aiming future product development toward large firms and mid-size companies who employ graphic artists and the like who use a variety of the apps. For them, renting is a viable option because I am sure they can deduct a portion of the rental fees as an operating expense. Nothing wrong with that. Nor is there anything wrong with current Adobe users making their views known, positive or negative. Such feedback is probably welcomed by Adobe because if it is sincere in delivering customer satisfaction, it needs to know what a significant portion of its users are feeling. I think the majority of the irate were directing their comments at Adobe’s latest corporate move and not at Scott directly. He may have mistakenly thought he was the target because the barrage of vitriol was so loud it may have felt NAPP headquarters was under attack rather than Adobe. I hope all of us will get results in the near future that can placate the needs of all current and future Adobe users in a satisfactory compromise.
Well you missed a lot in the post Scott was talking about. There were quite a few personal attacks in their.
Also people aren’t complaining about the features of CC. Just the cost model.
Apple appeals to almost no one now. They gave up on the pro years ago. The new Mac Pro is a sad attempt at trying to help Intel peddle more Thunderbolt addons to recoup the cost of development. Soldered on parts, no expansion.. reeks of iMac.
Scott Spot on and well said :) I am not getting paid by adobe to say this but I love CC and looking forward to the new features in the future! Move on and keep doing the great teaching and pushing the boundaries with PS via NAPP and Kelby Training.
Scott, I’m crossing my fingers in the hope that Adobe will improve Lightroom with the few Photoshop features you suggested on your Grid broadcast. Lightshop? Anyway, that would be ideal! Thanks very much for all your efforts in representing the NAAP members’ concerns to Adobe.
Man I would love that Lightroom add on, right? :)
Scott, worked in the newspaper biz for years. I was always getting bitched at for stories I had nothing to do with and ran years past. I hear ya! There are just those kinds out there. Looking forward to your new LR5book.
Many thanks, Lee. :)
Scott, I was at the B&H / Adobe summit last week
with you in NY. Remember when they mentioned CC and the entire crowed booed? Just sayin that is how a lot of folks feel. This was an Adobe event right? When the crowd of 1500 boo maybe they should pay attention.
“By the way, if youâ€™re still using Photoshop CS5, it came out in April of 2010.” Great one! You made me crack up and I guess you would be talking to me on that one. I’m sorry you had to write this article…but that is the internet I suppose…
GREAT POST SCOTT!!! Keep up the great work and providing the latest updates to software and equipment. Ultimately it will be up to the customer to buy in or move on…Adobe provides great products but if you feel this isn’t for you anymore then Google the many other products out there for photographers. Can’t wait to experience PSW in a few months as this will be my first experience and hope to get to meet you in person!!! Way to get this off your chest…now you can move on and promote the great features Adobe CC provides….
To the surprise of some friends, I subscribed to Adobe Creative Cloud a couple of weeks ago.
Bear in mind, I definitely did not see any value for me as a photographer using only Photoshop and Lightroom. I made my own blog posts about why I didn’t like it, which is one of the joys of being a blogger. You don’t have to go rant on someone else’s digital home when you have your own platform to share your views.
Despite my own displeasure, I also realized that wasn’t going to be effective and Adobe wasn’t going to change its plans. That left me with a few options. Stay put with CS6,accept a CC subscription for the same software that I thought was a bad deal, or re-think how I can get more value from Adobe CC.
The latter won out. I occasionally write eBooks and I have more topics that I want to produce, but I’ve been dissatisfied with Apple Pages to create layouts. InDesign is a better solution and it’s part of CC. I’ve never had decent tools for video production (and have practically no knowledge about it), but now Premiere could be at my disposal without making another large purchase. I’m a TypeKit user already, but it’s also part of the CC membership.
By evaluating my wants and needs, I found that I could now see more value in Adobe CC than viewing it only as a photographer who needed two tools.
Something else came to mind. My blogs are small businesses and I write about topics in photography. It’s hard to remain stagnant about a major tool in your primary topic. The blog is profitable and this is now the cost of doing business.
Had I not reconsidered how I operate, both personally and professionally, I wouldn’t have joined Adobe CC. I can’t recommend it for everyone. I think that people may find that there is some opportunity now to re-think whether the other tools in the suite can provide them with value that’s worth the subscription cost. A little change in perspective can be quite illuminating.
I still haven’t downloaded Photoshop CC yet. Better to let someone else be the first kid on the block to deal with any bugs.
Thanks for the comment William — you make a lot of great points. So far PSCC seems pretty stable on my machine (knock on wood). :)
I think, it’s a personal decision if you want to spend the money or not. If you choose not to, so just don’t but let others enjoy doing it!
I’m not perfectly comfortable with “just renting” the software instead of “owning” it. Technically, we’ve never “owned” software if we read the conditions properly, but regarding the money we spend, this is different now, because if we stop to pay, we cannot use the software anymore. But as there aren’t any real alternatives (Gimp simply doesn’t deliver!), it’s either the renting thing or staying with CS6 until this version cannot be run any more (e.g. due to future operating system limitations).
I’m a renter now, because I like to stay at up-to-date technologies. So, this means I’m learning how to use new software. If I pay for it, I’m getting fun to play with other programs such as AfterEffects, Indesign, Illustrator, etc. I’m just doing this stuff for a hobby…
However, I think Trey Ratcliff has a point, when he states, Adobe could have launched this new package with really mind-blowing features. Personally, I’m not so excited about the new features within Photoshop this time. Maybe, I haven’t found the really good ones…
But being a real customer to Adobe, I don’t like what they did with the support. If you want to report bugs, they point you to the forum which is kind of “let’s have the customers do their own support”. I know that support people are present, but it used to be better in my view.
I follow you!
To be honest, up until this whole fiasco, I thought you were paid by Adobe, whether it be a salary or some other perk. I mean, it only makes sense — you’re business hinges on Photoshop and its success to some extent.
And to continue with my honesty — I’m a hater, I admit it. No, not one of those who keeps calling you out or hates on you because they disagree with you. I’m a hater of the CC subscription model. I know it works for some, maybe even the silent majority, but it doesn’t work for me. I’m afraid they will raise the price and I’m afraid I’ll have to upgrade my computer at a rate I’m not comfortable with. I’m an Adobe hater at the moment, not a Scott Kelby hater.
But I do have to disagree with you on one major point. You say that if you skip buying Adobe products, then you are no longer a loyal customer. You use Best Buy and Exxon customers as analogies. Well, let me add another take. You are 16 and buy a new car. You go with a Toyota and for the next 30 years, all you buy are Toyotas. Let’s say you’ve bought 3 in those 30 years but the last one you bought was 10 years ago. Are you not a loyal customer because you didn’t buy a new Toyota with every major release? How long after you buy something are you no longer a customer?
And to expand further – you bought a Toyota at 16 and for the next 30 years, all you buy are Toyotas. But there are things that the Toyota isn’t so good at that frustrate you. You write to Toyota, you give free input and feedback in every possible way, but Toyota don’t release any new car that addresses these problems – each new car has the same problems. Each time a new Toyota comes out, you read up on it, hopeful that it’ll be the car you’ve waited for – and each time you’re disappointed, so you keep driving the old Toyota.
Is this person really a disloyal customer? Does it really make sense to blame them for the new cars not being worth their money? Or is it the company in this example that is failing to listen to its customers?
The responses to your original/controversial post about Adobe CC were organic, real, from the heart and genuine. Many of the responses here seemed canned, planned and feel like propaganda. It’s like you had a lot of time to line up all your friends and you pre-screened this post to them and asked them to back you up with positive feedback. I could be wrong, but that’s the way this feels to me.
So basically what you’re saying is that because the vast majority of comments here are positive and not what you were hoping to hear, Scott must have called all his friends and asked them to comment favorably on this post (they must be getting paid or doing him a favor right)? How about you accept for a moment that there are people that are OK with Creative Cloud and don’t mind saying so. Shocking and perhaps hard to believe, but it’s true.
A few points:
1. I hate the term “haters”. Just fuels the fire.
2. I appreciate Kelby’s books, multimedia empire. I’ve learned a lot.
3. Yes, obviously, Kelby is going to support Adobe; it’s his living and that of his staff.
4. The human marketing machine known as Terry White, an employee of Adobe, is obviously going to support his employer.
5. I like Adobe CC.
Terry, honestly, I dont think people have a problem with CC in itself, I think most people, and the posters here, have two major concerns going forward, 1) The cost and 2) No perpetual licence. I like the concept of having new tools quicker than the past (although I loved the ‘buzz’ leading up to a new version PS release) but the pricing for me is just crazy after the first year discount. Even if Adobe keep it at that level after the first year, having your tools stop when you stop the monthly commitment is not for me.
Terry – I think all commenters should have to disclose if they have a business relationship with Adobe or one of their supplies / vendors. If we have clarity on that issue I think it will be much easier for people to see how many people just genuinely love CC.
Bloggers already must disclose freebies and testimonials. At least by US law: http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2009/10/endortest.shtm
Ah, but does this extend to commenting on a blog?
Have to read the law but I don’t think this would apply to a comment in general. I was thinking you were referring to blog posters in general.
Hi Terry, I always appreciate your websites and vids. I don’t agree with much of what Tom said above BUT I do need to say that many times I have mentioned that I’m sure that CC is great for some but as a amateur semi-pro photog it really kills my “equipment fund”. That is for me personally and I was one that did voice my displeasure to Scotts original post but I think I did so in a voice that was reasonable and not attacking Scott at all(If it was that was not my goal as I realized then and now that Scott isn’t the one making this decision). My feeling was that as the President of NAPP Scott would be the one on our side to help us through this with Adobe and the way I read that post it didn’t seem that way. Anyway…no worries and I don’t appreciate being lumped in with some of these blowhards and idiots that can’t see anything but their situation. Just not a fan of the “haters” term.
I agree that it seems skewed somehow. But as I noted separately, perhaps it is because those who were turned off of the dialogue have tuned out, leaving only the diehard fans behind. And I think that Scott and his followers have gone into a defensive crouch, and it comes off as a little shrill to those watching from the sidelines, like me.
I don’t understand why you take comments so seriously! A shockingly high proportion of the internet are idiots who love to demonstrate their complete lack of technical and social understanding by writing ill-informed comments so they can share the badly thought out ideas with the world. Surely the best response to these people is to not give them the satisfaction of a response.
Hey Scott- It is nice to see that you are not swayed by all the negativity. Keep on keeping on! BTW- Jeremey can send me his subscription, I will take it! :)
Good article Scott. Anyone has the right to disagree with anyone on anything, but unless it’s a matter of life and death, being nasty and self righteous just gives you the right not to be taken seriously. Itâ€™s a shame these people feel that you must justify your feelings and insights to them.
Keep on keeping on!
â€œmethinks the lady does protest too muchâ€
Why would you complain? Were you getting the student/teacher edition real cheap on the fly and now can’t get the $10/month price. Were you buying “used” from a shady character on eBay (nothing against eBay) who forgot to tell you they were still using it too? Or did you just happen to share with someone else and now don’t have a serial number? Maybe you should put down your camera, admit your photo’s usually suck and stick to your day job. I’m tired of seeing crappy pictures with “likes” all over them everywhere I turn. Go get Instagram, its free.
Let’s get something straight: YOU CANNOT GET PS FOR $20/mo. A month of subscription is not available, so why do you keep pushing that price point? It’s $240/year. Stop trying to spin the price point. You don’t see iphones priced $8.29 per month with a 2 year subscription do you? No, because you have to sign up for the whole period! Geesh.
Let’s get something straight — I never said you can buy a one month subscription. I said it’s $20 a month, which is exactly what it is.
The implication of that phrase is that you can buy a months worth. You can’t. If the grocery store advertised milk at $.75 a quart but only had gallon containers, customers would be upset. It’s the same thing. The real price is $3/ gallon.
Okay, so it’s $240.00/year. Or, $700.00 for the box version that you can’t upgrade without paying more. Hmmm, sounds to me like you are getting a $460.00 discount for the cloud version and free upgrades.
Not everyone pays MSRP. And most people posting here already have a copy so talking only about first time users is a little disingenuous. And consider the cost over 5 years with startup costs + upgrades on the old schedule vs the cost of the CC plan as it is currently presented.
And to be clear, there are no free upgrades. You’re just amortizing the payment of them over the subscription.
If they are not paying the MSRP, what are they paying? What is their discount? How are they getting it? Saying “most people here have a copy” could be disingenuous too. I have a copy of the CS4 creative suite. It would still be cheaper to upgrade to CC over the course of 5 years as you put it. To bottom line it- it has to be a business decision, where you choose to allocate your money and when you allocate it. If you just got CS6- six months ago, it would be a foolish business decision to jump to the CC version. The same argument could be said for buying a new camera every time the
latest version comes out. That’s a whole other can of Spam. It is a business decision how you choose to make money. Adobe chose this route. Can’t fault them for that. You choose your route. Can’t fault you for that. Keep in mind, these are Professional tools for Professional uses. The idea is to make money using them. I’m sure the guys like Scott Bourne, Dave Ziser, and many other “Old School” guys will agree that is has never been more economical to get the tools of the trade to help run your business. They things they have to overcome is the market saturation that comes from “everyone being a photographer”. At the end of the day, there seems to be a large group of people that just want to argue. They will never be satisfied. They will never be happy. That’s okay. You just can’t please everyone.
Who declares it professional software? Is it only because a lot of people who charge money use it? If so, then a lot of freeware must also be professional software.
Again it comes down to value. And not every user of Photoshop here is a business user who can pass along the increased costs. Is it wrong for people to protest a price increase (and for many it is)? After all, price increases are what sparked many a war in history.
Like I said, you just can’t make everyone happy. Or, make everyone agree. That’s the beauty of a free country. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That IS free. If you can’t bring yourself to purchase the software (for whatever reason), then don’t. I have money to make so I must move on from this discussion. Otherwise, I will get bogged down in the endless abyss that is comment threads.
I’m a fan of all things NAPP but this post struck me the wrong way. I do think from time to time you play the self pity card a bit, but had never wanted to comment before. Now, however, you have this whole post just because of what people were posting on *another* forum (Mashable). Did you really have time to write this extensive post just because of comments on another forum altogether? If these comments really do bother you, seems like it would be better to just ignore and not respond at all, no?
This really isn’t intended to come off as negative, I’m just genuinely wondering why you feel the need to respond/dwell on what people are saying.
Ken, let’s have around 600 attack you publicly for a decision you had absolutely nothing to do with, and see if you can’t understand why there is a need to respond. In fact, I imagine you’ll respond to this comment.
Scott: pending Ken’s response, I suggest that using a broad brush to label Adobe critics as “haters” (augmented by your many fans who take up the cry of “haters!” “haters!” “haters!”) does nothing to appeal to the many of those of us out there who have reasonable concerns with the new arrangements that Adobe is offering. I actually felt you were taking the right approach by letting this all die down, although I do appreciate how natural it would be for someone attacked in an unreasonable way to lash out at their attackers. The truly unreasonable people are long gone (from your blog, NAAP and ScottKelby.com), so I would think it is time to move on and not look back at this rough transition. I am an amateur Lightroom / Photoshop 6 user, and love your photo training on ScottKelby.com, but will not be transitioning to CC anytime soon. But like Ken above, the defensiveness you are showing is grating, and as I note elsewhere in the comments to your posting, you have a responsibility to your many talented workers to move on and resist the urge to lash out at critics to avoid turning off the “independent” voters in your client base. It may feel good to punch out a few people, but the satisfaction will be fleeting, and in the meantime, you will have lowered yourself in the eyes of many watching from the sidelines.
BTW, I’m not against CC, but please stop trying to spin the price point like your some sort of bad politician. And for a REWARD option, I’d rather see all subscription based software be a set price the first year, and a reduced price subsequent years.
Well, you can always dream. LOL!
Great Post Scott. Absolutely agree with you.
From Ecuador, a great fan of your work.
Thank you Scott. That was awesome. (Where’s my money? Because obviously, Kelby Training must be paying me to say that.)
You rock man.
Well said, Scott! I’m one of those poor people who couldn’t afford to use Photoshop before, and jumped on the Creative Cloud when they first announced it. Now I’m learning to use Photoshop and loving it. Ignore the haters, Scott. Photoshop is the industry standard, as you well know. It’s a great product, and you are providing the best training service there is!
I feel as if this is your longest blog I’ve ever read.
MOTHER BADWORD a hater! Tell them get a life!
Keep doing what you’re doing Scott!
The new people that discover you because of all those haters will know you keep it real and you’re awesome!
Have a good day Scott!
Excellent as always! Hits right to the core! But I have to tell that Adobe’s marketing and sales departments are doing absolutely nothing when it comes to attracting new customers from new territories! I live in Azerbaijan, and nowadays only the laziest doesn’t know about this country. But guess what, Scott, we are not allowed to buy any of the CC products or Adobe’s products except if you have Mac you can buy Lightroom from Mac AppStore! Why? Just because adobe has no Azerbaijan in the list of the countries when it comes to purchasing! I’d be happy to buy it! I’d be happy to use it! I’d be happy to pay for it even more than 20$ a month! but I can’t!
You get a free portfolio site on Behance with your CC subscription. Worth every penny.
Cheap is never good.. and good is never cheap! Period.
I have one more thought about this…people should do the math.
Its far cheaper to subscribe. Unless you’re going to go out… and make your own image editing software…..then I suppose you best appreciate what you have, and be grateful its not 40$ a month.
I’ve already used the new CC updates of MUSE and Edge Animate to complete two web projects that these software titles served nicely. Not only did the freelance work already pay for a year’s worth of Adobe CC but it left me time to start experimenting with the new features of Photoshop CC (with the help of the NAPP tutorials already posted in the online courses section at NAPP)!
It may not be for everyone but it has opened up a box of tools for me that I otherwise would not be able to afford. If I were just a casual hobbyist or used PS to edit yearly vacation photos, it would be cost prohibitive. The CC subscription is better for my cash flow as a freelancer. Imagine paying Directv $1500 up front or your utility bill a year in advance. That’s how I felt in the old purchase/upgrade model Adobe used.
DISCLAIMER: I don’t get paid by Adobe, Scott Kelby, or NAPP.
Thank you for being straight forward and to the point. I have been following this ongoing torrent of hate over the Cloud thing. I am amazed at the bile and anger posted everywhere about this thing. I agree it is not the best of the best, but it is the plan Adobe is going to go with adapt or get out people.
I am a photographer and an user of your products, like them and will continue. Subscribe to Photoshop only, either $10 or $20 a month. Wow, how bad is that? If you are a selling shooter and can not recover that dollar amount in a year you may be in the wrong line of work.. As you wrote in an earlier post if the casual user can’t get this down, use Elements or LR.
I started with film 40+ years ago, went to digital kicking and screaming, but now am a big believer. Things change, you either change with them or you get run over and left behind.
The argument about not updating every version is a personal choice, and should not be part of the numbers used to make this whole thing very expensive.
It is a good deal if you use 2-3 of the Adobe products. You don’t own your insurance, but you pay the premium every year for the use.
I will do Photoshop by subscription and Kelby Training the same way. I am sure that some will shoot themselves in the foot over this thing, so be it. The haters need to get over themselves, things change . . . burgers used to be a quarter.
Keep doing what you do, those of us that want to provide our clients with good images timely will use Photoshop with a bit of anger, but it will be just fine. If enough users drop and go to alternate plan b software it may open up the market for some of the rest of us, not all bad.
Love you posts,
love your blog,
love your training,
love my wife more then all of them put together,
love capturing images,
love seeing moments unfold in front of me that SCREAM “capture me!”,
love sunny days,
love rainy days and the beautiful light the rain creates,
love long days of summer,
love the long nights of winter,
love my city (NYC),
love people and their quirkiness,
love to travel,
love the more than 30 years it’s been since my mother signed me up for an after school photography class to learn how to take and develop pictures…
There’s a lot more love out there than hate.
I too liked this comment :-) Great points Andrew!
Great article Scott! Keep up the fine work.
As usually, perfectly said Scott and I’m so thankful your the voice of reason. I’ve been on the Adobe CC now for nearly 6 months and am very favorable to it. It all averages out to be about the same price anyway and now I’m always getting the latest and greatest. I’ll cancel if I don’t use Adobe products any longer so they’re still on the hook for producing great products as they virtually always have.
You laid this out better than I ever could have and I thank you so much for it!
Scott. Pay no attention to the personal attacks, they’re just a reflection of what kind of hearts people have. You and your gang do a terrific job. I’ve gotten way more out of my NAPP membership than it cost. That’s all thanks to you.
I would offer one little tweak, to what you said about CC pricing. I just bought Lr5 (w/ NAPP disc). I was about to get PsCC, ’cause it would be just $10/mo (1st yr). But, that’s not the case, if you have a student version, which I do of PsCS5Ext. For folks like me (or student version of CS6), it’s the straight $20/mo, from day one. At $10/mo, it was a no-brainer. At $20/mo, I’m thinking about it. (I’m just an old fashioned marketing guru, but I’d think it’d exactly be the students / former students that Adobe would also want to give a price break to, to expand the brand.)
At any rate, it’s not your fault. You did your best, and I think it was good enough. Ya can’t ask for more than that. Adobe has been somewhat opaque about things, I think because they might be concerned that they’re giving onOne, NIK, Topaz and maybe others an opportunity.
You go Scott!!!! Looking forward to more learning!
I am loving Creative Cloud. I work for Subway World HQ, the first eLearning Designer to be hired on World Wide Training and use every Adobe product, everyday. I have not had one problem with it.
See no real issue with CC other than at the end I won’t own software to read the layered PSD and all the new functions. I’ll only be able to view them by paying a rental fee. Yes I can continue to use my purchased CS6 but at some point the OS won’t support it. So from an archive perspective accessing these files in 50-100 years means being diligent about converting to something like TIFF.
Ahh, comment threads. Where the only thing people can use is words. If you want something better, ladies and gents, get off your collective asses and create it. Failing action on your part, your voices really have no value in a marketplace. For every user of cs6, there are 15 to 20 people who wished they could use it. Now, the opportunity is closer. If you don’t like where the software bus is going, kindly jump off. When all of these fine minds assembled here release a superior product, Adobe may actually have cause for concern. Innovation is an individual undertaking, so shut up and innovate, y’all. Or, just sit back and bitch and wonder why things don’t suit you. Who knows, your ideas may actually get you on a payroll somewhere.
Don’t stop doing what you are doing. We need you to keep telling us the truth. We also need your opninions because they are more informed than ours most of the time. You will now probably get hate messages about your posting about haters. I always have told my kids that there is only one persons behavior that they can control, and it is there own. We can choose how we react to haters….. let them have their say….they won’t mess up my world, :)
Hello From the ATL…..Scott you are 100% right!
thanks for all the knowledge you have imparted to so many. Keep up the GREAT WORK.
oh…..so how much are you paying me for this comment, again? LOL
Personally I am not happy with the monthly fee structure, I am coming from an educational license which I don’t believe my wife and I can use now that we are retired. So I can’t even “grandfather” in, it’s full fare day one.
But I am not blaming them. They are in business to make money. Interesting thing is that leaves the door a little wider for alternative sources to provide solutions and make some money if their product provides a cost effective solution for the user’s needs.
Unbundled software pricing structure goes back to the days of the mainframe computer when software was first “unbundled” meaning that you paid for software separately from the hardware. The company I worked for at the time had one of the lawsuits against IBM to help open these doors. Now all software is separately priced, but some (Operating Systems) possibly provided as part of a hardware package. All that is changing here is the pricing model (version vs. routine periodic). Interestingly enough the early unbundled software had a monthly pricing model. What goes around, comes around.
Let people prepay for a couple years of Photoshop — aka “buy” it. Then stop updates after their subscription is up. Let people use PS from that point forward without updates.
I have no problem with CC – but the only thing I don’t have a great understanding on is if there will ever be a CS 7. In other words, if you currently use CS6 and are okay without the updates offered from the subscription, will you be able to spend $199 on an upgrade one day to CS7, or is Adobe going to only offer a subscription service from now on?
Adobe is only going to provide subscription services at this time. Unless they reverse their decision there will not be a CS7 at any point in the future.
I’m a NAPP member, Scott, and I have always tried hard to give you the
benefit of the doubt but your constant harping on the “haters” and
internet trolls is really starting to get on my nerves. It is starting
to make me think you are either very naive or believe your customers
are. Really it is getting to a point where “thou protest too much”
(colloquial, not original, meaning).
My recommendation is that if
you’re tired of being accused of being on Adobe’s payroll, then stop
acting like it. Simple as that. Here are some examples:
the crying about internet bullies schtick. It gets old and makes you
come off as a whiny wimp instead of a professional business person.
Your claim that the comments on your blog post were 99% personal attacks
is so far beyond exaggeration that let’s call it what it is: A LIE.
Sure, there were some attacks there (aren’t there always on the
internet??). There were a lot of upset people. There were also many
good comments from people expressing legitimate concerns and making
good, valid suggestions. YOU IGNORED THEM, both on the blog and in your
Grid episode soon after (and yes, you had to dedicate half the grid
episode to crying about internet bullies). When you emphasize so much
the haters and bullies, it gets to a point where people like me begin to
question if you are using it as a red herring/mis-direction to keep
people from thinking about the real issues. Adobe uses these
red-herring tactics in its marketing all the time making it look even
more like you are a shill for its marketing department.
the topic and your customers with respect – like maybe they have half a
brain at least. You never mention it but your blog post where “everyone
attacked you” had a definite snarky and condescending tone. The whole
“life isn’t fair” comment was treating us like 12-year olds. Snarky
insults like that and the shaming you’re trying to give the “haters”
gets to a point where it seems like you’re using a conscious strategy of
making everyone who isn’t a fan of CC “uncool”. Why? You just force
people to question your motives.
– Don’t use sales-speak gimmicks
to defend CC. It makes you look like, well, Adobe sales people. What
do I mean by “sales-speak gimmicks”? Comparisons to Starbucks, false
cost-comparisons using historical list prices ($700 for PS? I think I
started with PS for about $300 with a Canon camera purchase), and
completely laughable comparisons to cable and gas companies. And by the
way, do you really feel good about putting Adobe in the same category
as cable, gas, and cell phone companies to justify the
rental/subscription model – companies that people use because they’re
the only game in town, that have crappy customer service, and are
infamous for price-gouging?????
– Stop the “entitlement” BS. If
anybody here is playing the entitlement card here, it’s Adobe. Your ONE
example of a guy who skipped 3 upgrades is totally bogus. First, I
have bought every PS upgrade since before CS and a couple of years ago I
upgraded to the Production Premium Suite. I don’t like CC. There, I
just cancelled out your example. More importantly, the thing you are
shaming the guy for is exactly the control that we enthusiasts and
small-business owners have lost. THIS IS A BIG DEAL THAT YOU NEVER
MENTION. The ability to skip upgrades was our ability to apply a
performance penalty to Adobe for products that didn’t provide us with
enough value and to do so without shooting ourselves in the foot. Now
we have lost that control. Again, your belittling of this valid and
valuable control for Adobe customers brings into question your motives.
Be open, honest, and transparent regarding your relationship with Adobe
and the power that Adobe has over your business – at least reasonably
so. Yes, we understand that you don’t get a check from Adobe. We get
that. We understand you aren’t on Adobe’s payroll. But we also
understand that the Kelby businesses have a symbiotic relationship with
Adobe; there are dependencies between the two companies. We also know
that it is common for tech companies to use “access” or lack thereof to
persuade partners, associates, and the press to be “favorable” towards
their products. Just ask any honest tech reporter or blogger about
their experiences with Apple or Microsoft if you have any doubt. So
again, give us the benefit of the doubt that we have half a brain,
Scott. I think many of us will control ourselves from accusing you of
getting kick-backs from Adobe if you will take off your halo and admit
that your business depends on keeping communication channels open to
software manufacturers and you work hard to balance that with objective
information for your customers. Also, don’t take it so personally when
someone questions whether Adobe is “influencing” your insights and
recommendations. Most of us don’t know you personally but we DO know
that manufacturer influence and pressure is very, very common –
particularly in a crowded “tutorial/training” market with one, dominant
It’s no different than what Apple does, releasing half-baked products with little consumer testing. Eventually people come around simply because they adore Apple (why, I’m not sure). The main difference though is, Apple isn’t the only game in town for the entertainment hardware they peddle and Adobe is. I’m sorry but you cannot find REAL competing software for most of what Adobe sells with their subscription.
Scott I agree with your post. Two other things I see is one, everything is moving to cloud base, why? because cd/dvd drives are going away so how else are you supposed to get your software? Yeah you could do a download it and store it yourself, but why bother? Then there is the cost. As one that always upgrades (I must be a loyal customer) in the long run it’s cheaper. Now I admit I use everything to do video, print, web, etc. so to buy the Master Suite every time a new one comes out gets expensive, plus you are waiting 18-24 months for new features, software and apps. Maybe I’m wrong but if you can’t afford the subscription then maybe you need to find a different career or at least raise your prices to cover the cost.
I am torn about the Cloud thing. I wish it was an option and I wish buying the actual tangible software was an option as well. But, I’m flexible. Either way… I think Scott Kelby is T-H-E B-O-M-B. (glad I’m not in an airport.. wouldn’t want to get into trouble for saying that!) Scott, I’ve learned, and continue to learn, SO much from you. You are nothing but fair and open minded in any and all ways! Carry on – and TY for all you do!
I am torn about the Cloud thing. I wish it was an option and I wish buying the actual tangible software was an option as well. But, I’m flexible. Either way… I think Scott Kelby is T-H-E B-O-M-B. (glad I’m not in an airport.. wouldn’t want to get into trouble for saying that!) Scott, I’ve learned, and continue to learn, SO much from you. You are nothing but fair and open minded in any and all ways! Carry on – and TY for all you do!
I think the subscription model is great, back in 2009 when I was considering a CS purchase there was no way that I could stretch for the couple of thousand dollars that it cost but I really needed it to setup my freelance business… Then they announced subscription trials in Australia, I was over the moon, now the product suite was in reach and four years on I have subscriptions running on four machines at various levels and we get to use the latest versions and amazing tools. Thanks Adobe for thinking about the new businesses who need to spend their capital on creating assets and can now use your products without having to starve!! Disclaimer: I’m not paid by Adobe, if you want to hate me for my comments you need to get yourselves some fresh air, oh and a life.
just upgraded to CC, loving it, but my comp isn’t up to par though… oh well got to upgrade that as well, loving all the new features and waiting for type kit for my indesign stuff… the only thing i did not like was Adobe’s customer service, worst experience i ever had as a customer… When i first called last week to ask about their services to compare what is best to pick between teams or a single license, I was given attitude and i was transferred all over the place before they just hung up on me. The 2nd time i called, the person was just trying to get me to just upgrade w/out answering my questions and had no clue about pricing if we want to upgrade to the higher storage capability. When we upgraded today, same thing, i had a couple of questions but the person said he was busy and didn’t want to answer any of my questions for business catalyst, pro site etc… he told me to look it up for myself, on top of that, they screwed up my billing info… all he wanted was for us to sign onto CC and thats about it… all i have to say there needs to be competition for adobe in order for them to step up their game, train their people and lose the “attitude”, sooner or later APPLE will buy you out or come out w/ something to compete against…. but I still love adobe’s software, just hate their poor customer sales service
Scott, I think I read about 100 of those posts that were bashing the you-know-what out of you and I felt sorry for you ’cause you really did not deserve that. That said, Scott yo’ure a gosh darn scumbag in league with the devil… oh, sorry! no ya aint but i wanted to have fun!
Now, Mr Adobe listen up! I do not believe that $20 a month is an unfair cost for Photoshop. My objection and reason for never going to CC unless something like this change is made is, what you are proposing to me is that I have to pay you $20 (incremented yearly for inflation) FOR EVER!
Here’s the thing, I think there is a big difference between a graphic design company and a photography company. Most graphic design houses are ‘real’ companies in that they have owners, employees and at least the intention of existing longer than the lifetime of their current owners. To them the ‘company’ owns the CC subscription. Photographers are different, we are the company so it kinda can’t exist if we are gone. Hence we might view the CC in a far different way.
If you put a deal on the table where I paid you $20 a month for three years, then I had the option of signing up for another three year deal OR I paid you, say, $100 and at that point I owned whatever was installed on my system, no more updates (save maybe bug fixes) I’d be a happy camper. I would almost certainly sign up. This is exactly the lease model auto companies use, seems to work for them, well except GM!
Love CC….I now have access to Adobe programs that I could never have afforded before but always wanted. Cannot wait to see how it evolves at the end of, and during, my 12month initial contract.
Scott… My opiniÃ³n might not be important, but I will tell you what I see, I see one of the persons that has helped me so much on my education and work tools (You and all the great people working with you) getting upset by a bunch of haters, that makes me me hate THEM… As you said, do what you do best, help us get better in our dayly tools, the camera, the lights and photoshop and LR… I am not a wise person nor an experienced person, but I know that there is always people just waiting for a chance to share their anger and negative thoughts when ever they see a chance and all I can say to you is… Forget about them! If there is something I have learned from you guys is the fact that you try to make us better at what we do, you share your knowledge, that saves us years of struggle finding for ourselves, and I am sure 200% that people like you are not trying to do something against us. Yet people will never be happy…. Don’t let this people affect that GREAT guy who is happy all the time sharing what he knows. I just have to say to you THANK YOU VERY MUCH! You have affected for good so manny people in ways that you don’t even know. Keep doing what you do, you are the best at that! Smile! Forget about the haters!
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and certainly some people are going to hate this pricing model and some will be fine with it. The reality is that the world we are currently living in is rapidly changing, and the industries in which Adobe operates are no exception to that. The one thing we can always count on is people being heavily resistant to change. With technology and software you have to take the changes as they come or become irrelevant — its just the way things are. You don’t have to like it, but what choice do you have? I suppose you could stop using Adobe products all together…. :)
When is that release, because I am going to get my first iPhone and am waiting for 5s…impatiently.
Boom. Perfectly said Scott.
Scott, when you label everyone who doesn’t like the CC plan “haters,” you’re not hearing the feedback. The deal is that many (probably not most) of your regular readers feel betrayed because you aren’t restating their concerns in a way they recognize. So some of them get overheated in their replies. If you just acknowledged their key points (which are factual), most of them could relax. Key points:
– The one-year minimum really DOES mean that $240/year is a more realistic way of putting it than $20/month. You can’t pay month-to-month (like 3 on and 3 off).
– That amount is more than even upgraders pay now. On the normal 18-month upgrade cycle means $360 (CC) vs. $200 (upgrade) per 18 months. And that’s every-time upgraders! For every-other-time upgraders, the difference is *really* huge.
– Most of the people reading this site already own Photoshop, so the argument about a first-time purchase isn’t so relevant here.
– A temporary $10/month deal is hardly worth talking about. That year before it bounces back to the higher price goes by very fast.
– The idea of having to pay forever even if you only need to edit a PSD files once or twice a year is unsettling.
I’m sorry you’ve borne the brunt of so many personal attacks. That stinks. It’s too bad the hurt has clouded your ability to listen clearly. You used to be grasp the feelings of the masses and speak accurately for them, but this time it’s not happening.
Best of luck getting through it, though!
Excellent post, and I agree completely. I would love for Scott to reply in an even tone to prove that he is not as rabid as some of the people who are so upset. BTW Scott, labeling people “haters” is a cop out.
A few things…
– While the pricing is correct, under this model, they should be giving more upgrades a year. They are aiming for 2-3. Under the old model, they were essentially forced to charge for those upgrades. Whose to say that after 18 months that you have the same product that you would have under the old model. In 18 months you could have a product that has 50% more features than normal, that would skew the pricing comparison.
– The amateur/hobbyist is a concern. And if they don’t choose to address it, then it could be a problem. However, it shouldn’t be anywhere near their first concern. Neither should be the ones that skip product cycles. They are important, but you don’t want a restaraunt to cater to those who visit a couple times a month over those that visit 2-3 times a week.
– I’m understanding that his term “haters” doesn’t regard all those that disagree with the model. Its those that attack for no good reason. Those with legitimate concerns wouldn’t be a hater.
A quote from Scott’s post up top: “There are 662 comments on that post. About 656 of them are direct personal attacks on me.” Sounds like Scott was interpreting “attack” pretty darn broadly. If you go back and read the comments, it doesn’t take a lot of clicks on the Load Comments button to see how broadly.
It’s true that personal attacks really sting. I feel for the guy. But he needs a friend to tell him, “Look, buddy, you’ve lost perspective on this. You’re feeling defensive. Stop whining about how victimized you’ve been and think a little harder about why people are emotional. You’re missing it.”
To me that is an exaggeration. Do you really think he sits there and counts which ones were personal attacks? His point is there is an insane amount of comments that say he sides with Adobe because thats in his best interests, or they are paying him to say it. And it doesn’t take even one click on the load comments button to see that happening more than it ever should.
Now, since some are interpreting it that way, maybe he should have not used as much exaggerations and sarcasm in this post, but I took what he deemed a “hater” differently
Hah…let me see. Hmm let’s say you were to buy the old model. Would it be fair that you would get a discount because you only use the software 3 months off and on? That logic DOES NOT make sense.
To me that is an exaggeration. Do you really think he sits there and counts which ones were personal attacks? His point is there is an insane amount of comments that say he sides with Adobe because thats in his best interests, or they are paying him to say it. And it doesn’t take even one click on the load comments button to see that happening more than it ever should.
Now, since some are interpreting it that way, maybe he should have not used as much exaggerations and sarcasm in this post, but I took what he deemed a “hater” differently
Rock on Scott. :-) I don’t know why people LOVE to hate on your sites but thx for leaving up the comments… between watching people get trapped in logic circles and seeing them regress to a 3rd grade maturity level it is quite entertaining!!!!!!! :-)))
Hmmm. I left a critical but respectful comment here but it seems to have been deleted. I guess the title of Scott’s blog post should have been:
You Said Something I Disagree With. You Must Be a Hater/Troll.
Congratulations —- you have the ONLY comment I’ve deleted from this post. In fact, the only comment I’ve deleted in months. If you think calling someone a LIAR in all caps is “respectful” you’ve got a long road ahead of you. Once you said that, I didn’t even read the rest of your comment, I just hit delete. This isn’t the New York Times. I don’t owe you a place to post your viewpoint. This is my personal blog, and I’m not going to pay the bandwidth charges for you to attack me. That’s why I deleted your comment. No further response from you is required or desired.
Just to clarify: I said your following statement is a lie:
“There are 662 comments on that post. About 656 of them are direct personal attacks on me…”
People can go back to your post of May 7, read the comments, and judge for themselves if this is a correct statement or not.
I did not make my statement lightly. I did it because:
1. This is something you have stated on multiple occasions and each time it becomes more of an exaggeration.
2. It is a disservice to your readers who took the time to give you reasonable feedback as to why they did not like the CC model. There were also your usual true believers who came to your defense who you also ignored.
3. I think if you really believe that all the comments on that post are “personal attacks”, it indicates just how biased you are on the subject. I would say “You don’t agree with me, therefore you are attacking me” is just as bad as “You don’t agree with me, therefore you must be getting paid.”
OK Daniel, you just couldn’t leave it alone (which is a trait of what?). Now you’re banned (I guess that’s what you were hoping for all along). Goodbye.
WOW!! – Everyone, please take a deep breath… there
now. It’s really not so bad. I’ve never seen anything here like this post &
And please, Scott – How much is Xanax or Valium paying you for this? :) Best – CTB
I like CC for me. Yeah, it would be better cheaper, but after a year of using it I find tremendous value as a part time hobbiest.
I spent more than $50/month on film and processing before Photoshop!
Thought I’d wander by and see what all the fuss was about. Oh, it’s Scott posting another statement about Adobe CC on his own personal blog. What is it that so many people don’t get about playing nicely with others? I’m not wild about Adobe’s new pricing model either. It never occurred to me that personally attacking Scott would do anything to tweak Adobe’s decisions.
Scott, keep doing what you’re doing and shake off the haters/trolls/bullies, etc. I’ve learned so much about PS, LR and photography in general from the Photoshop guys, NAPP, Kelby Training, and you, Scott. I value the fact that through you and NAPP there is a way to be heard at Adobe. Cheers!
Hey Scott, Have always been a big fan of yours and it distresses me that you have to take the hit for this. People don’t like change, and people feel like they deserve something for nothing. I am a photographer, It’s more of a hobby then a business and I use Photoshop CS6 and Lightroom. At first I was a bit taken back with Adobe’s announcement with the subscription based CC. After a lot of thought on it, it really is not such a big deal , and in fact it could be a very good thing. My main concern was opening up old files later on in years when I don’t have CC anymore. I’m in no hurry, and I’ll wait to see what evolves. What I have now works for me. It baffles me that there is so much hysteria over it. I would be much more upset if I woke up tomorrow and coffee disappeared off the face of earth.
Adobe has the best software, and having the best software doesnt come cheap. I come from a family of engineers and all that knowledge and innovation doesn’t come without a lot of hours and a lot of expensive education. I appreciate you keeping all of us informed on the latest and greatest news and features.
Don’t let the trolls get you down, as you know there is a greater Love.
Honest question: are Thom Hogan and Lloyd Chambers haters because they have questioned the value of CC? Not just in an off hand way but a serious evaluation of the merits and demerits of the new model. Just seems like if you question the value of CC in a respectful manner you’re either dismissed or labeled a hater here or even insulted.
An earlier commenter hit the nail on the head. One reason for the prolonged angst here is that we don’t seem to see any of our legitimate issues being acknowledged. We feel unlistened to and continue to restate our issues. People want to be heard.
From the overwhelming supportive comments to your posting, Scott, I have to assume that either (i) negative postings are being deleted or (ii) everyone who had a beef with you has deleted their bookmarks for your site and are no longer the fans they used to be, leaving only the diehards in your thrall. Do you think that labeling anyone who disagrees with you as a “hater” is the same kind of knee jerk reaction that you are complaining about?
Well said Scott!
Adobe sure has made A LOT of people angry… Including myself. Forcing something upon us. Abruptly.
Well… 24 hrs. after CC was released, it has been hacked. Can’t say that I’m happy about that or not… But, I caught myself laughing a little…
Just because everyone else jumps off a bridge… I will be the LAST.
And, oh sure! $10 a month to start off… Oooohhhh!! Ahhhhhh!!! But, then, every year, price hikes!! All of you CC lovers, let’s chat in a couple of years….!!
I’m investing in Capture One! And, yes… they are sending me a CD copy of the software!!!
Scott, I am sorry you had to take such a public and personal bashing for your honesty. I have always and will continue to read your books and blogs…keep up the great work and don’t let the vocal minority of haters change how you blog.
Brillant article – love the straight talk, as always. Which is why I dont understand how people would think the Q&A piece was a paid job.
I guess my only issue with CC is that I love the idea and I’d love to become a customer, but Greenland, where I live is not on the list of approved CC countries… which is just a bit strange… I mean: I am not allowed to be a customer and Adobe cannot tell me when they plan to include my country. Weird situation.
Scott, will they add new filters? Not sure if you are familiar with Paint Shop Pro but that program had a very nice filter set. Unfortunately its Windows only, which is why I was wondering if they’ll add some new filters & funtionality per filter?
Also, how often are they going to send updates?
Trolls are just part of the internet. Talk is cheap ultimately it will come down to
money. It will take a year or more but the real test will be when Adobe introductory first year pricing ends and people have to start paying the full monthly fee. Only then will Adobe know if their subscription model works or not. But Scott should know before that if Adobe’s move has any adverse effects on his business. Will people stop buying his books, stop
subscribing/renewing to NAPP and or Kelby Training? No use on buying books or subscribing to them if they never put out content for CS 6 and only put out content for Photoshop
CC if your staying with CS 6. Scott should know by the end of the year after he runs his Holliday membership and subscription deals.
I moved on to the CC world. I plan to continue and look forward to the new tools that will be coming. I have been buying Adobe products since Photoshop three, if I remember correctly. I do like that when an update happens, you are notified immediately and you can update when you like.
I found it interesting to note that one person I talked with said he didn’t have any plans to move on to any new Adobe products.He says it is over priced. It turns out that he didn’t even have a legitimate version on any of his computers and has never bought any Adobe programs in the past! I’m finding out there are a few people that I know of, that are in that boat. So maybe that has something to do with some of the hate. Go figure!
My only issue is that you can only put it on two machines per subscription. It wouldn’t be that bad except I have two macs and I bootcamp windows and Adobe sees them as 4 machines. I just ran across this, I’ll be contacting adobe to see of it can be fixed.
Scott, From a beginning photographer, thanks for your honesty. I not sure about the CC but once I’ve master Photoshop Elements I will probably move up to it’s big brother. I did the math and if I did it correctly… It’s still a better deal then shelling out 999.99 (Single user license through staples.) So since Photoshop CC by itself is twenty bucks then that would be approximately 50 months before I payed the same money to Adobe. With an average individual upgrading every 2 years. Seems like I would make out like a bandit.
The question that befuddles me is why anyone actually thinks they buy the software they are using. They buy a piece of plastic with some magnetic ones and zeros etched into it an a license to use that software in perpetuity. But they don’t ever buy the software. You would think individuals who live by copyright would understand that concept. (I know you do because I believe you mentioned on one of your shows.) I for one thank you for this article and the last one that you got flamed on. I really liked it. Let me apologize for lurking on that one, I tend to read, agree or disagree but keep it to myself.
Again take care and thanks.
Scott, the other thing I wanted to mention is that it is $9.99 per month if you owned a full regular version of Photoshop CS6, however those who own the education version don’t qualify for the $9.99. Their choice for Photoshop Only is either 19.99 for the whole year (no cancellation), or $29,99 for the month to month.
I have CS5 Master Collection education version, so I don’t qualify for the $9.99 for the first year. I did get the month to month for now. I would have to get a new CSPS before I can get the $9.99.
I don’t think people complain about the cost because they can’t swing $10 per month, I think its that people don’t like feeling “forced” to subscribe to use it. What if you were told you could only get gas at the gas station 20 miles away from now on? You had to make sure you had that budget available “monthly” now, so this is added stress on those without a constant money making work flow. Both the design world (graphic & web) and Photography, are oversaturated, and vulnerable to the supply & demand thing…adding more stress on all these creatives is just not cool. I subscibed out of curiosity, but I won’t continue after I get a regular copy of CS6. Its just not worth it from both the graphic design or photography point.
People like to have options, and a lot of people don’t have options anymore. You bet people get emitional about it because this is a creative outlet for many people….and they feel like its being taken away from them and without rime or reason but all in the name of greed!
First off, thanks Scott for reminding me that I needed to upgrade before the special 1st year deal expires. Personally, I have tried to avoid all of the haters rubbish and make an independent decision on whether or not this helps me and my business or not to move to the cloud. Having read quite a bit about the positives and negatives of both sides I have decided that it is in my best interest to go ahead and upgrade soon because for me, at least, the positives do outweigh the negatives by a significant margin. If you’re in business you have to make CBAs all the time and there is seldom a time when you get everything laid out exactly the way you want it. All these people attacking Scott Kelby, or anyone else, because they actually have “the nerve” to highlight the positive aspects of the changes that Adobe is making is really pathetic. The changes have been made and it’s time to move on and make a decision as to what YOU are going to do. If you don’t want to upgrade then don’t do it but don’t resort to ad hominem attacks just because you disagree. Sorry, but that is pretty lame. I have decided that for me CC is a good fit so I just upgraded to CC and am excited to be joining Scott and all the others on what I’m sure will continue to be a really fun ride.
There are going to be people out there who disagree with Adobe and their business model and they are going to assume you are part of it. Any clear thinking individual knows the difference. Just keep up the good work you and the Photoshop guys are doing there in the Tampa area and everything will be fine. Keep writing books, keep publishing a great magazine, and continue to pay the Photoshop guys enough to stick around.
One thing I want to say. When I see a tutorial made by Matt, I will watch even if it is watching paint dry. He is that good and personable. If you did anything right at NAPP it was hiring Matt.
HELL with all the Nay Sayers!! I think your truly looking out for “our” best interest and NOT Adobes!!! I also think 90% of all the attackers just jellies of your success and wisdom!! your right on!!! dont change a thing!!!. Plus you give us SO much free stuff in the first place what the hell do these people want??? I wish Adobe would pay you!! you deserve it!!! Love ya Brotha!!!
put your nose deeper in that hole so the tongue can reach his sac bro
This whole CC business and the way it’s making people act (from too greedy to too cheep depending on your position) has got me thinking maybe I should drop photography as a hobby and take up fishing. I doubt that I would be missed. :(
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. The only person you have to please is yourself… and maybe your Mom.
In the UK, PS was something like Â£400-600 (Â£900 on a MAC) . Something most people couldn’t afford as an amateur, so what did they do? get it cracked. Now PS is affordable, I’d pay the Â£17.50 a month and I will, as soon as I get a faster PC. If this was Adobes plan then its going to work. If people want to whine and moan so much about it, then go use Sumopaint, GIMP or Paint because Adobe are in this to make money, not be nice to people.
Better buy a calculator. After 53 months you have spend far more than for the box and from that moment on you will pay till the rest of your creative live.
You’re missing the point. I don’t have Â£400-Â£600 up front to pay for PS. I’d rather pay it every month. However, as a compromise, I do believe Adobe should have allowed both methods. Those who want to but it outright, and those who want to subscribe.
If you cannot pay it up front, well this is what consumer credits are for. At the end you own what you paid for.
Yes well I agree there. It’s good to own something. Hopefully Adobe will relax this model. However, subscription works for lots of services, Netflix, Lovefilm, VPN, Microsoft, Apple so why not Adobe?
Subscription works best for things that are consumed as you go. CC is just a regular tool with a few minor cloud sync features bolted on. They could just as easily kept the desktop apps and have true cloud features you pay to have access to. If they had done that, I doubt anyone would have complained.
Or if they revealed a truly integrated cloud solution as the next generation product then I don’t think anyone would have had much of an issue. Instead it’s really just the same old product with features that don’t need to be cloud-ified and gave it a more expensive pricing model.
From a new entry to the world of PS, it looked like a win for me. However, if like many, you are using it for years then it starts to add up. I’ll stick to lightroom and Canon DPP for now. I have Cs3 for tiny work, but I can see the points made.
And it may be a win for you. That’s been my issue/argument from the beginning. Everyone has to evaluate the value. For me, the value isn’t there for the raised cost but someone else, especially someone who can expense the cost, it may be the perfect option. And if commentators and reviewers would spend more time talking about the value of CC for the various market segments I doubt they’d find a great deal of disagreement. That’s what a number of other people such as Thom Hogan, Mansurov, and Lloyd Chambers have done.
CC and CS have been around for over a year and living together well. The people who don’t support CC are NOT saying “turn it off”. They’re saying give us our perpetual license back. We support you having choice. We’d just like choice for ourselves too.
Emotional topic! Ultimately this is the way it’s going so I think we just have to accept it as progress. Information (ours and there’s ) is moving towards the Cloud. If we want a world without borders then this is part of that.
Why is it that every time someone’s disagrees “online” is called a “troll” or a “hater”? Would you call someone that to their face if you had a discussion “face to face” and disagreed?
I didn’t read those 600+ comments on the other post, but I was just as outraged by this new practice as a lot of other people, but I don’t “hate” Adobe for it. Yes, it is just another example of corporate greed where the company forgot that the “customer is always right”, and forgot that they don’t only serve those with a 4 year degree in graphic/web design or photography. A lot of people are hobbyists, and enjoyed using their software from very early versions, so why are they called “haters” all of the sudden for disliking this new “business model” that might no longer allow them to use it?
The reason people “attacked” you was because you founded NAPP! When you run a magazine/association that addresses Photoshop and those using it, it is somewhat expected that if something like this happens people will turn to those who have ties to Adobe. I am just a user, I have no ties to Adobe, and I get really happy and excited if Julianne Kost answers me back to some question I might have! but that’s as much as I have in common with Adobe, others don’t even have that. I don’t like the subscription model, but I also don’t like to be thrown in the pool of “haters & trolls” because I don’t like it and expressed clearly why.
How easy is it to work at Kelby Media as a graphic designer when you have a choice of probably about 10,000 people that all know how to use Photoshop because they’ve been using it for so long? some with 4 year degrees and some without, but with the same knowledge as Photoshop is the same for all? In this domain HR picks one person, and it is usually not even 100% for their talent using Photoshop, but more like 10% Photoshop and 90% appearance, and how you “click” with them as people…so yes, we do find it unfair, because now we can no longer keep up with Photoshop if we don’t subscribe, and if we end up between jobs we have no way of staying current. Why should we pay NAPP memberships, and online training if we don’t have the software to train on?
I think the Cloud can exist just fine for day to day professionals to use, and advertising/media companies to pay the subscription to use, but at the same time the rest of the customers should be able to acquire stand alone copies too. Those who enjoy using it for personal reasons and don’t need to stay up to date with every little new function.
Scott, As someone who has met you and shot side-by-side with you, I know you are one of the most honest and since people I have ever met. I have witnessed the rise of your career. You are friends with the greatest and most notable people in the photography/publishing universe. I have felt bad for you when you are attacked by what you call “haters,” such as when Kalebra wanted an iPad.
It is the amateur/hobbyist group (which includes me) that is affected by this bone-headed decision by Adobe. I was among those that expressed my genuine concern. Now, I am labeled a “hater?” Lumping us – part of your membership – into this category achieves what purpose? Does losing the amateur/hobbyist part of your membership make you feel better?
For me, you have lost touch with this part of your membership. I knew this was the case when you posted that we should not be “freaking out” over this decision. That really hit me: we amateur/hobbyists had lost our voice! You had become disconnected with the little people like me.
Next, on The Grid podcast, you exclaimed that Photoshop is professional software. I said to myself, “Geese Barney, maybe Scott thinks I should not be using Photoshop!” Moreover, you spoke of countless discussions with them – but never declared which side of the table you sat on. Why were you so evasive? If you think forcing us to subscribe, with absolutely nothing to fall back on as we retire, get laid off, etc. is a terrible idea, why not come out and say so?
I do not have stats on how large a segment of your membership my group comprises. I hope it is a tiny segment. But if we are a significant part of NAPP’s membership, this is terrible news for the future of NAPP, and perhaps Adobe as well. Already, I have decided not to attend Photoshop World, even though these have been some of the best conferences I have ever attended. There simply will not be much new for us who refuse to subscribe to the Creative Cloud.
As it stands now, we cannot trust Adobe. Here is a company that allows people with no common sense to make huge decisions. Cost here is not the main factor – it is the fact that there is no choice, and no fall-back option. The big loser is file formats. Who wants to invest time and effort in file formats where renting software is needed in order to use the latest features?
Please Scott, do not post when you are angry. You are such a great guy, and you have a big heart. Please do something to show us that you have not lost touch with us.
Your man in Singapore, Barney
I don’t get it. This model is PERFECT for Amateur/Hobbyist. I think you are too resistant to change and that is the problem. This model encourages people who didn’t have the financial stability to pay $700 upfront just for PS.
You are reviewing this way off. Being able to pay $20 (intro rate) for the WHOLE CC is amazing. It introduces me to their flagship softwares WITHOUT the need to PIRATE. This is the first time I am able to afford it. That’s one less person pirating their software now. This is a WIN for both me & Adobe.
You forget that the ametuer/hobbyists are the one’s that don’t have the budget to pay $700 lump sum. But now $20 / month, yea I can budget that, no problem.
Again, the problem is your resistance to change, not the business model. If you actually look at it openly you will see the benefits are enormously there.
– Jonathan, ex-pirater
Actually, its not “perfect” as you state. You are making the assumption that the amateur/hobbyist doesn’t own a copy of PS or can’t pay lumps sums period. If you are paying the full amount for PS then you haven’t even used it yet or have pirated it. But for those that pay less, yes there is less upfront cost, but 18 months down the road they are paying even more and as of right now if they don’t pay they lose access to it.
And yes, its great for getting started at $20/month for the whole CC…but in a year when it is $50, it becomes expensive especially for those that normally just need to buy an upgrade.
I do like the model and it works well for my organization, but 2 glaring issues that they need to eventually be addressed is the hobbyist/amateur community that does in fact not buy every upgrade and the fact that you have to have all the apps regardless if you usually use 2 or 3 (the disappearance of things like the production and design suites).
Jonathan, If CC is perfect, why do I refuse to join? Why are none of my friends signing up? Why did the audience and B & H boo Scott when he mentioned CC?
It is also interesting that Adobe now has you, an ex-pirater, as a customer, but has lost me, who purchased each and every full upgrade to the CS, and never used pirated software.
Nobody is saying subscription is a bad idea. People are saying “subscription-ONLY” is a bad idea.
The benefits are there -for some people-. If you’re just getting in the game, if you use it some months but not others, if you’ve got a steady low income and no savings, then sure, it’s better in the short-medium term, -for you-.
For everyone else, it costs more, and removes the one piece of influence professionals had over the software they use – the ability to choose not to buy an update if Adobe have failed to make an update that is worth buying.
Sure wish people would get on with their lives. Thankfully I’ve got a photography business to run and I’m not going to waste my time reading through all this nonsense.
Scott – you do a fantastic job. If only we didn’t have to deal with people eh ??
Couldn’t Adobe come up with some kind of break for the hoards of
hobbiest users of Photoshop? They must realize that it will cost us
more than the professionals because they can use it for a tax deduction. We
don’t have that luxury. And it’s nice that the entire Photoshop Extended program is included but most of us hobbiests have no use at all for anything except basic Photoshop.
Oh, well…I guess eventually, as they say at most magic shows…”all will be revealed!”
They have.. its called Adobe Photoshop Elements. And its a powerhouse. :)
I wonder what’s to become of it?
Its is, but for advanced Photoshop users it is a downgrade.
And it’s a crippled program, Have to be in 8 bit color to do things like layers. Hardly satisfactory.
Why should photography.. be any different than any other professional endeavor.
What’s the old adage in motorsports… “Speed Costs…how fast do you wanna go? Here is my cut and dry.. ‘Im from NY tell it like it is’ response.Bill more. You want 16bit….pay up.
Maybe we should all just start shooting Polaroids..the heck with all this post processing :)
Im not insensitive to the needs of people.. I just think that needs.. and wants are blurred ( gaussian blur? … surface blur?) If the need is there.. then usually the means will be too.
I’m not a professional, I’m an amateur. I see no reason to welcome big price increases that require payments in perpetuity just because Adobe wants a steady revenue stream.
I can absolutely afford CC. I have a very successful software career. But you don’t build and maintain wealth by spending stupidly. And for many amateurs spending money on CC is spending stupidly. An old business friend of mine used to say Buying is Best, Leasing is for Losers. He’s been proven right many times over the years.
Seems a number of people here on this thread like Creative
Cloud not because it has features A or B but because it makes them feel like they are separated from the common rabble of hobbyists who don’t like the new pay-as-you-go system. Even though many hobbyists are better photographers than people getting paid. Enjoy the distinction, it is well earned.
That’s how we say things in Tennessee.
Ahhh Tennessee! So awesome they gave it extra letters! I dig the products that hail from your hometown!
You’re right.. people do cling to odd things for a sense of validation… no doubt about it.
But you’re missing my point.. it’s the difference between want…and need.
And again… when the need arises.. if its truly a need.. the means.. will become available.
No matter what moniker you want to pin to your lapel, pro.. amature…hobbiyst… ninja…sherpa… guru……its just the way it is. IF there is a need.. then the way will most likely present itself. Anything else.. is desire or want. ( Good things.. yes.. but they are causing the uproar here)
Bottom line is the deal is really great.. it saves ya money…it includes lots of awesome perks The portfolio space on Behance.. alone is worth the price of admission! Don’t believe me? Compare to other portfolio hosting sites… find one the same price? Great.. Now go and get all of the major creatives who hire for jobs to go there too… you can find them on Behance. :)
Need Vs. Want.
We HAVE been paying up. For years. Why did it have to change? CS and CC were living together perfectly well for a year. You have your preferred option – why should we not have ours?
I have Elements, too. It is a good program.
Here’s a great article on “Criticism”:
See, the problem here is that Adobe did not have a meeting with the “consumers” of their products to get a “feel” for what this will do to all those people who bought previous versions. They basically put their foot down, and completely disregarded a whole mess of consumers who spent their hard earned money on their products for years.
The “cost” of it is not the point. Far from it actually. The point is “how” and “who” has been using their software faithfully since early versions. Believe me, those upset by this are not the 20 year’old demographic.
Also, it is truly selfish to make comments like this one: “I’ve got a photography business to run and I’m not going to waste my time reading through all this nonsense.” Again, that lack of Empathy. Comments like these show a great deal of ignorance unfortunately: “So long as my blanket is warm, the rest of you can go to hell”! Not cool to treat your peers like that.
Elements is great for beginners, maybe it didn’t sold as many copies as Photoshop and is why they are trying to push it to us now.
I feel like you’ve written this post before, about the KT app for iPhone and all the Android people getting all upset. :)
I think Erik and others nailed it – it’s no longer ok any more to have an opinion that’s different from “mine.” I haven’t just noticed this about social media though, I’ve also noticed it when I talk to people in person. It just isn’t ok. When I come across people like that, I just roll my eyes and ignore them, however I also don’t get “yelled at” like you do, so it’s easier.
Just hang in there, keep fighting the good fight, and continue to inform us with how you feel. Personally I read your post, I will not upgrade to Photoshop CC, and that’s it.
I must say when I developed a huge passion for photography about 3 years ago, I was so happy to have become part of what I believed was a wonderful, non-egotistical and helpful community, who seemed to be so happy analysing photography and giving tips and suggestions along the way. I have absolutely no problem with Scott’s blog post at all, but what saddens me is the amount of vitriol, pettyness and arrogance, that has been stated in this comments section.
From what I have seen on this site (including other recent blogposts – RC’s for example) and other websites, photography now seems to turn into an adolescant slanging match at every opportunity, that resembles arguments I used to hear as a child, as to whether Sega or Nintendo are better. This is coming as well from amateur and professional backgrounds. I accept I am not exactly rising above it with this comment, but I feel compelled to state how I feel, with regards to the fading great spirit among photographers.
Whatever the big companies decide to do with their business, should not affect you as a photographer, your work will not get worse because a company has made a disagreeable business move. And just to clarify, I am being swayed in both directions of the Adobe CC plan. Make a choice and stick by it, you want to go with it great, if not nevermind, focus on the photography always though, become better yourself.
Ok I think I’ve said what I wanted to now, let’s hope the next discussions are based on how wonderful photography is and why we love it so much.
Fess up, Scott. How much did you get paid to write this post? ;-)
Scott you have done a great job presenting the facts.
I don’t know how to feel about the CC. While it’s nice to have copy of PS CS6 that I only had to pay for once and can use when ever I want without having to be online at some point I just don’t use PS enough to justify jumping over to the CC yet. I’m not a professional photographer by any means and just do it as a hobby right now. I haven’t read too much about the CC but to me it seems like Adobe is just doing what Netflix does with its streaming of videos. If you don’t pay for Netflix that month you can’t watch any movies. At this point I haven’t seen anything that makes me want to switch from CS6 to CC. If I can use the CC like I can with Netflix on a month to month basis without a yearly contract then maybe at some point in the future I’ll get the CC. But for now CS6 is enough for me.
Well said, Scott! I always appreciate your positive outlook and view forward!
Well said Scott! There are more lovers than haters out there!!!!
I’ve been using Creative Cloud for a little under a year now. I’m a hobbyist Photographer, I make no money from my hobby. CC was the best way for me to pay for Photoshop (I’ve also been learning how to use InDesign and Illustrator). I’ve made no money from saying this, either :)
Great post Scott!
Scott, As long as you’re true to yourself and say what you mean and mean what you say you’re doing what’s right! You’ll never please everybody, but as long as we know we can trust you, you can never go wrong!
I haven’t used Photoshop since I won a copy of the original CS in a photo contest. I couldn’t afford it then and can’t now. But I was “this close” to buying some version of it and even planned on attending a Photoshop World event to learn how to use some of its advanced features that had caught my interest. But that’s when they went to the “rental” model. I’m sorry, but I can’t justify a perpetual rental system in my budget. So, I’ve been able to find plugins and other low-cost options to accomplish the same thing with my copy of Aperture (sorry, I don’t use Lightroom either). And the two cups of coffee analogy always gets me. Where do you get your coffee?? I sure as heck don’t spend $5/cup! I’ve got a budget to meet.
Here is a positive post, Scott Kelby and Kelby Media Rock! Adobe CC is also a great product been a CC subscriber for 8 months, would not turn back, and Yes I purchased a CS5.5 Suite if I did want to turn back. Business Catalyst service alone is almost worth the price of admission, then add all the great software and its a bargain. If you are not using it professionally then the combination of Lightroom and Photoshop elements will get you 99% of what you need.
I keep reading this. Who declares that LR + PE is 99% of what you need? Let them eat cake?
I wonder if the cavemen had fights like this!!!!??
Red berries are 12 rabbit skins. Ughh now want 1 rabbit foot every big moon for red berries.
Many rabbit skin berries are not pro cave-painters… rabbit foot people are superior.
Excellent write up! Can’t say I disagree with anything you said. I am a photographer and still find Adobe PS CC very useable for what I do. Constant upgrades and a lower price tag than boxed versions make sense. I think you were unfairly accused of anything. Keep up the great work and I can’t wait to see you work your magic with PS CC. Best of luck!
Hey Scott, as a long time reader of your books I am always interested in what you have to say. I myself simply have adopted a wait and see attitude. I don’t feel the value for photographers is there yet in the creative cloud, especially for free-lancers like me. There are months where I’m working with Lightroom and Photoshop everyday and then there are months where I don’t use it at all. Obviously paying for something month to month doesn’t work for me. Also, I like buying something once and then using it for a long time. I’m still using CS3 and am still very happy with the results I’m getting. Sure, I don’t have the latest and greatest in Adobe software, but I use a lot of other software that interfaces nicely with photoshop and Lightroom to get the results I’m looking for.
I agree with you that Adobe is responding to their customer base as they have sent me 3 customer surveys in the last 6 months. I’ve responded to them every time telling them that I won’t be purchasing the Creative Cloud. Just as I wouldn’t buy a camera that I had to pay monthly fees to use, I disagree with the policy of having to pay a monthly fee to access Adobe software. I’ve been a beta tester for Lightroom since the beginning and as long as Adobe offers each version of it as a one time purchase and not a month to month rental, I’ll be happy to continue buying just Lightroom alone.
These are just a few of my thoughts. I certainly appreciate your opinions and everybody else’s as well. For full-time professionals such as yourself the Creative Cloud could make a lot of sense, but for part-timers like me who don’t want to have to pay for something when it’s not in use, the Creative Cloud leave us out in the cold. It’s entirely possible that in the future my photographic needs and my opinions will change but as of right now, the Creative Cloud gets a big “No” from me. Keep up your great work and no need to drop my Kelby Training Subscription as I’m very happy with it. :)
But don’t you know everybody who screams is automatically right? This leads to the point that the more often the haters post someting the more right they are. Haters just want to hate and everytime you come up with good arguments the more they want to scream at you. That’s just how it works for them.
I’m a subsriber since CS 5.5 and don’t want to go back to the old way I purchased software. Is it perfect yet? No but it’s getting there. And I think in the future you will see way more companies offer similar cloud options.
I’m a fan of CC. The only thing I still can’t understand is the dramatic prize differences between the US and the rest of the world. Hopefully Adobe will adress this in the near future.
The funny think is that the other side of “hating” is being “overly positive” and not understanding that the other side has a point FOR THEM.
Can you guys not see that the “haters” are happy that you have your choice? You’ve had it for over a year. We just want the option which worked best for us, which we no longer have.
Let’s reverse this for a second. You like CC. Great. Let’s presume that you had it for about a year and never bought any of the CS products. Now let’s say Adobe discontinued CC and force you to pay for a full product at $600 or maybe with a small discount. Are you happy? No. Now you become the “hater”. You can do one of two things – sit there and take it or speak out.
That’s exactly the situation the rest of us are in – Adobe has forced us to pay more and pay forever. And we don’t want to. So we speak out. Otherwise we’re just idiots who follow whatever we’re told.
It’s not hate – it’s just good business sense.
Sadly this reminds me of a group of fourth graders fighting in the playground. This major shift in Adobe Systems distribution model provides a paradigm that deserves civil discussion. Painting everyone that is not happy with this new plan as a “hater” is using a mighty large brush. I have been using Adobe software professionally for nearly 20 years updating to each new version and have much time and money invested. I have many concerns, primarily that Adobe does not seem to have thought this out throughly before implementing. The 70,000 member strong National Association of Photoshop Professionals would seem to be the perfect arena for serious discussion concerning this software and how these changes effect us all. Unfortunately the dialog has degraded into a “my team” vs “your team” playground altercation.
Yes, yes, and yes…
Yes on the “loyal customer” bit…when CC was first announced I had one person on a web forum proclaim they were a loyal customer since “CS3.5″…which in the video world at least, seemed to be a frequently referenced, apparently pirated version.
Yes on those that contend they are a loyal customer because they buy every second or third (or fourth) version and have the users who update every version pay for the development of the product.
Yes on the users who believe that their opinion is ubiquitous and that Adobe will collapse for their perceived sins…
…and yes on Adobe obviously making a bold course change after what I’m sure was intense and lengthy corporate hand-wringing.
…now about that iPhone however. :-)
Huauu, what a fight! Scott, reading all this from Argentina I cannot but say that you decidedly live in the “first world” where it must be real that people is respectful with each other and their diversity of opinions. Here, nowadays, half the country hates the other half, and viceversa. K’s – Anti K’s, Boca Juniors – River Plate (soccer), Pope Francisco – Anti Pope’s, Mac – PC, Adobe – Corel, and so and so. Every public person is accused of something and no one seems to be actually ofended by that, and those who really are “paid” and those who “pay” continue with their acts and lives completely undisturbed. Therefore, this discussion is kind of fresh air to me. The fact that it seems that you are affected for the “paid” accussation and that you took the time to write this long post is really admirable. Mostly, because what I see is that people in the USA and argentines, do have one thing in common: they do not read. Better said, they read over the lines and do not take the time to interprete. You shouldn’t waste your time with all this stuff as we (I) need you to teach us all the tips and tricks and secrets of this software throught your wonderful photos. My only complain is that I’m still waiting for the ballet’s.
As for Adobe, I really hope that in the future they will consider updating CS6 too with that RAW filter thing and whatever. Both the programs and the cloud are very expensive for us here. But if we don’t like its politics and we fill we’ve been done, we can always change programs with anothers that do practically the same and sometime in an easier way. The monopoly exists because we allow it. Isn’t it? Anyway, I am very glad that Adobe chose you and your team as evangelists. Best regards and enjoy your new phone. Tell us as soon as you get it :)
Whether or not I have a problem with CC is purely based on how I can pay. I don’t have an issue with the overall cost being marginally higher, especially given that the upgrades don’t mean buying a new version every time. But I don’t use credit cards. Getting a copy of the newest PS was as easy as dropping by my local Best Buy or Future Shop, plopping down my cash, and going home to enjoy my new investment. Does Adobe have an alternate plan to credit cards (even Paypal would work) to keep us current with PS?
Bravo! It was a pleasure to read this. Well-written, well-argued, and level-headed. Thank you.
Hi Scott, I agree with you up some point. I am a CC subscriber but there is one thing me and other customers in Europe cannot understand – why Adobe is punishing us just because we live in Europe and charge us 2 times more than customers in US. There is no postal charges, I prefer and I am using English version, so no translation costs etc, etc and I’m still feeling ripped off by Adobe and paying higher charges. Let’s say, I’m disappointed here.
I just wanted to say “Thank you” and I think you do a FANTASTIC job with all the opportunities you put out there for us to learn about all aspects of photographers. I am “amateur” and I only have CS3 and I use it once in a while but I mainly use Lightroom and looking forward to updating to LR5 in the near future. When I decide to upgrade to the CC its not going to bother me! I’ll pay ten or twenty bucks a month for a year and I’m not worried about it at all. I love photography to much to allow all this negative energy to get in the way of my creative mind. There are so many other things in life to get all worked up about and it’s all just a bunch of “NOISE” and I choose to ignore it. It reminds me of a video Zack Arias did about all the noise in our lives that how we let it affect and consume our creative minds. I hope you are able to move on from all this “NOISE” soon and it all calms down for you. Keep up the good work!!!!
Excellent points, Scott. Either you join or not; let’s move on.
Hey,it’s almost Guest Blog Wednesday!
I had the pleasure of meeting Scott Kelby at the first ever Hockey Workshop. He was as nice a guy as you would ever want to meet. Any personal attacks on him because he supports or doesn’t support the CC model are misplaced. NAPP is designed for people using Photoshop and it seems to me that he is rolling with what he is given. He has voiced his opinion to Adobe and to us, given sound advice (freely I might add), and has attempted to help people understand better what Adobe is doing. What more could we ask from him?
Thank you Scott for what you do.
Scott, In my opinion you certainly did seem to take an unfair amount of personal attacks for that post. It is very unfortunate that people feel the need to take their anger out on other people in such a public manner. You would hope people could make their points in a more professional and respectful manner. My experience on reading comment sections tells me otherwise unfortunately. My guess is that there are two things happening… 1. Some folks just can’t express their opinions clearly without coming across in a disrespectful manner. For these people its unfortunate because they have a valid opinion, but it immediately gets lost in noise. The tone may be completely unintentional, but again their point gets missed. 2. There are just forum trolls who love to stir things up. These people are hardly unique to this site.
If you can read between all the noise there is usually a valid conversation happening somewhere in there.
As for Adobe and the CC. I am somewhat disappointed with the arrangement. I am a fan of perpetual licensing as it gives me a sense of flexibility. That said, If Adobe continued with the $9.99 price point into the future, I feel that is more reasonable. I would also like them to entertain the possibility of converting my subscription to a perpetual license for a certain cost (x number of months etc…). This would allow me to walk away with a current version while not cheating Adobe out of anything….a win-win??…maybe I am dreaming ;-). I am not saying I would walk away, but it gives me more flexibility. At the end of the day Photoshop CC is still a great product and hopefully something can be worked out to fit more folks situations.
Scott, you deserve better than what happened and if I could apologize on behalf on others, I would. Keep up the good work .
After giving this some more thought I decided that Adobe has
not gone far enough. They have gone from the â€œown your ownâ€ car model to a â€œleaseâ€ a car model, but where they need to go is all the way with a “Taxi” model. The real shift here is that Adobe has changed the time period for ownership from 18 months (to several years depending on your former update budget) to one of 1 month (with a 12 month agreement
required for better pricing). What they need to do is take the rental period down even lower to at most a 1 day rental or better yet an hourly rental. The beauty of the hourly plan is that the hobbyist will only pay for the true amount that they use and the pros who use Photoshop for many hours a week (hopefully making the big bucks) can pay an amount more in line with the value they are receiving from the software.
I suspect that my proposal will not be embraced by pros over the monthly rental model now being offered because they will look at it as an increase in their perceived cost, but the funny thing is that the jump from a monthly to an hourly program is the same sort of pain for the pros as the jump from a multi-year ownership plan to a monthly rental plan is for hobbyists. If a pro uses the software on an average of 120 hours per month then their cost
under the monthly rental plan is only 16 cents an hour. If a hobbyist uses the software for 20 hours a month then their cost is $1 an hour. A fair price would then be 25 cents a hour for everyone because as it stands now the hobbyist are paying more for usage than the pros. Just think about it. Donâ€™t stop half-way Adobe, give us a â€œTaxiâ€ plan.
??? don’t see the use of a hourly plan in using CC. Sounds a bit like a “Zip Car” rental plan for Adobe software. Keep it simple and I can understand the loyalty factor when using Adobe software. I suppose it was a matter of time that Adobe would put it’s foot down to lessen piracy, loss of revenue/paying customers.
Scott, thank you for the article and bringing the awareness of the pros/cons of using CC. I’m old school as I’m using PS 5.5 (including a PS 5 update)
Here’s the thing adobe CC threw me under the bus I was seething with anger could not concentrate and all the forums all the haters I was in bad way Here’s the thing I popped over to pirate bay and downloaded free copy I can now relax here’s the thing I know love adobe CC Scott keep up good work and yer that’s it
There is no justification for stealing the software, no matter how much we like or dislike CC.
All the money I’m saving. Every month I can now afford to become NAPP member marvellous
OK Scott, I just read the first ten comments in the lineup, and now I appreciate what you go through. Hang in there man.
Thanks Scott for all that you do. I am happily enjoying the new CC apps and am merrily going about my work. CC works very well for me. I couldn’t be happier.
Dear Mr. Kelby,
I am very saddened you received so many negative comments on your opinion of Adobe CC. I have taken many excellent helpful classes of yours and your associates during the four times I attended Photoshop World. I found your opinions about Adobe and their products to be honest and spot on. This included positive and negative comments about features they offered. Your an excellent instructor and you know your stuff. Because of your level of experience and expertise, I have full respect in your opinion. Of course, that is my opinion and to those who are reading this and disagree, we’ll that’s your opinion. The point is its just an opinion, and no one deserves to be attacked over it especially you the man that shares his knowledge so we may utilize these great tools to improve our work.
Thanks Scott. There are so many people who complain about ANY change. These haters didn’t notice that Adobe lowered the price on Lightroom (from $199 to $149 and from $99 to $79 for upgrades).
I really liked your analogy of the “loyal” customer and I have said the same thing many times.
I am one of the 500,000 who subscribed to the Creative Cloud over a year ago. Since I owned perpetual licenses to CS4 and CS5 I also qualified for the $9.99 single application plan. Having used the Creative Cloud for over a year I am would like to say I am very happy with the plan. Being a hobbyist and retired $9.99 per month is much easier to budget than at some unknown time in the future to cough up a couple of hundred dollars or more depending on the version (I was never able to afford the “Extended” version).
It is truly time to move onward. I’ll be doing so with the newest features of Photoshop!
What happens to you when Adobe raise the rate next year to double that? You DO know that is what is going to happen don’t you? Then what happens when it goes up again? I’m in the same boat, a retiree. If I start off paying $20 a month, then it goes up, that means that something else has to give….like saving for a new lens, or that day when my camera dies. Scott isn’t living in the real world where many of us have to budget and save for EVERYTHING that we do. I don’t mind that he likes CC, more power to him. I mind that we don’t have a choice.
At $20 per month the cost isn’t much more than I was paying before since I upgrade EVERY version. If it goes up to the point where I can’t afford it then I will cross that bridge when it happens. If the price of Photoshop is the biggest issue I have to worry about as a retiree then life is pretty good for me.
If Photoshop gets too expensive for me I can still use Lightroom and Photoshop Elements. No biggie.
Then why aren’t you saving the money and using Elements now, if it’s just as good. No PS isn’t that big a deal. I’m gone, and probably going to abandon LR as well. I don’t need a company that thinks part of it’s customers don’t need to be listened to.
Because I am saving money using PS CC right now. I upgraded to each new version so at $199 every 18 months I was paying $11 (approx.). Now I pay $9.99 ($179.82) therefore I’m saving nearly $20. If I have to pay $19.99 then I will be paying about $8.93 a month more. If $8.93 is the difference between paying for the necessities of life then I have no need for Photoshop AND should probably look at reducing a number of other expenses as well or just cut one or two Starbucks trips per month.
More than 34,000 folks have signed.They don’t like Adobe CC
licensing.Show @Adobe how you feel.
â€¦ â€¦ â€¦..
Another more fiscal way to show @Adobe you dont like the
CC licensing scheme.http://adobe2014.tumblr.com #adobe2014
More than 700,000 have paid money and signed up for CC – you better get busy if you hope to continue with your show of outrage :)
What you and most other apologists seem to forget is that there’s a world outside Photoshop and home-users.
Businesses are the ones on the receiving end here. Our yearly cost will almost double, if we decide to make the jump. We won’t, of course.
We need 20 licenses here. You do the math. It’s ridicolously expensive.
Scott.. the more you post on this subject, the more I move away from you and recommending anything to do with you. You effectively have defended your original post – again – above without listening to the reason that people were so upset. I’ll explain my view on your original post.
1) It’s way too positive. There’s no balance in the article.
2) People are hating and being nasty about CC for a reason. They hate it. It’s that simple.
3) It’s poorly thought out. You mentioned that one of the issues was that people felt Adobe wouldn’t be providing bug fixes for CS6 and how that wasn’t the case. You’re right. But they WILL stop supporting it in time, so you’re expecting us to be happy for now and take the pain later? We’re not that stupid.
4) You didn’t bother to look at how much it would cost the 12 million users to use CC compared with perpetual license. THAT is the key issue for many.
5) You didn’t bother to discuss the other major negative – which is that you HAVE to keep paying. In fact you made light of this situation and even slightly made fun of the situation. Currently with CS we don’t have this issue.
6) You didn’t discuss the elephant in the room – which is that CC and CS have been living perfectly well side by side for over a year and that could have continued.
A particular low point was when you said “Q: Wow. Renting doesn’t sound so bad now” “A: I know right?”. That more than anything made me think you WERE being paid by Adobe because if you can’t see CC is a 200%-400% increase in price FOR ME and most of the other users who already have CSx, plus all of the other negatives that are associated with it, you’re totally losing it. It sounded like nothing but PR spin.
And then there was the INCREDIBLY patronising “Change freaks a lot of people out”. We’re adults Scott. Not children.
One thing I’ve noticed is that people in a position of popularity or authority think that people follow them anywhere. People will only follow when it makes sense. When it doesn’t, they’re gone. That’s life Scott and it’s not fair. As you yourself said: “You seriously need to find the person who, at some point in your life, mistakenly told you that life was fair and clonk them with that round cardboard tube that comes inside Christmas wrapping paper.”. If you feel poorly treated, look at why.
And yet again the key point is this: The “haters” (as you unfairly brand them) NEVER hated CC. It’s been here for a year. I love the idea people have it as an option. They just hate the fact that they’re being forced to go that way by a company who they’ve supported for years and now won’t listen to them.
Right on Scott. I am looking forward to all the new videos on CC on NAPP and Kelby Training.
Well said, Scott. There have been too many times when I’ve joined a forum and the first response I get is a flame! As for CC, I’m impressed with Adobe’s willingness to listen to the customers who don’t need the whole Master Suite. They know that we’re not all designers or full-time photo editors and in the future I’m sure there will be different subscription plans for different types of users.
Subscription plans are nothing new to pro photographers. The software we use to sell our portraits or run our businesses might be subscription based. The licenses we sell are basically subscriptions. The CC is a fleet of heavy lifting machinery. If we want it continually shiny, new, and up to date, it makes sense to rent. What – exactly – is there to hate about that?
push all the negative thoughts out of your head, and download a warez copy for free which is already cracked. Problem solved. Why get ripped off for something which isn’t worth even half the money they charge for it.
Alternatively GET GIMP which is better and free.
Most of the HATERS were most likely PIRATING the software to begin with. It’s not that bad of a deal, if you were upgrading your products yearly as I do….especially if you consider the cost of the stand-alone product. Again, Most of the Haters are/were most likely PIRATING the software. This is not total speculation. I have been to multiple design shops in my area, and many had/have downloaded through torrents to include the software license and key. PIRATES are pissed because the feast of booty is about to dry up.
I should have said upgrading when available…not yearly.
Scott has it all wrong. A better analogy is now the housing market has disappeared and no one can EVER buy a house again. Everyone has to rent. The only choice you have is how many rooms that you want, but if you tweak that house (plugins) you have to pay for those yourself, without any guarantee that they will continue to be usable. And if you lose your job, and can’t rent any longer, you will be kicked to the street and all your belongings will sit in boxes, unusable, until you find another job.
Dear everyone who doesn’t like Adobe Creative Crowd,
Adobe changed. The world is changing. The cloud is here.
Please read the book ‘Who moved my cheese’ because you desperately need perspective.
Also, for all of the haters that are also double agent software pirates illegally using Pshop CS6 … HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!! Karma Baby.
Creative Cloudily Yours,
Wow Scott, I am blown away by this post… Enough that I created an account just to reply.
I have never met you but I have generally had a positive impression of you from your public persona, from several of your books I have purchased over the years, and from people in my camera club who have met you. (I won’t claim status as a customer since the last book of yours I purchased may not have been recent enough for you to consider my customer status current.)
I wrote off your prior post clearing up the “misconceptions” about the software rental model Adobe is trying to peddle as being from the perspective of a partisan who is close to Adobe and has had too much of their kool-aid over the years. Everyone can have a miss now and then.
But this post breaks the deal. I now see that you are a very small and insecure man and not someone I would want to associate or do business with. You object emotionally to people criticizing you for expressing your sincere opinion but label as “haters” anyone and everyone who disagrees with your opinion. Which, in this case, appears to be everyone who reads your blog. That is so logically inconsistent that it is beyond insecure and borders on delusional.
Worse, despite the unanimous reaction you still seem to believe that your post on the “misconceptions” you were “clearing up” was not out of bounds! Despite so many people correcting you on what the actual objections are to the rental scheme you haven’t grasped that you were guilty of making a straw man argument. You falsely characterized what we poor fools were “misconceiving” about the software rental scheme and then attacked your imagined conceptions as being misconceived.
I’m not sure to this day that you have bothered to show us the respect of taking a moment to actually grasp our objections — not agree with or endorse them, just correctly grasp and honestly portray them! I’m not going to bother rehashing what they are because they have been frequently stated all over the Internet wherever photographers gather, including on your blog. If you haven’t grasped them by now it seems quite certain you never will.
I still hope the rental scheme bankrupts Adobe or damages its business sufficiently that its IP is acquired by another firm. That outcome is important to ensure that other software firms view this rental experiment as a failure. If they view it as a success most software will go rental and we the people will have to change the copyright laws to prevent it… perhaps by shorting the life of a software copyright to be more like a patent and allowing “generics” to compete after a reasonable monopoly period.
But, while I still hope for Adobe’s failure I no longer feel sorry for you and the destruction of your business which will probably result from their blunder. Good riddance.
Sincerely from me, the Hater, to you, the Whiner
My only concern with Photoshop CC is, are you still going to be publishing your books (i.e., Photoshop CC for Digital Photographers)? Or something that details how to use the new features (if they’re as mystic as some Photoshop features are). And how will you keep up with the new features (assuming they come regularly)?
I love the Adobe CC plans as they currently are. I would normally get the Design Suite, but now I have access to all programs for cheaper. My work always had to have the latest and greatest because of compatibility with contracted and sub-hired material. I agree with most of your stance. The largest problem is having an installer for multiple stations compared to downloading the same information over-and-over for all of the employees.
I’m thinking maybe a lot of “haters” were probably pirating the software anyways. Now that there isn’t a easy way to install the software their choices are to either go out complaining or eventually they will buy the program now.
Also, if you are not doing this professional and just doing photography, they still have a program for you called Adobe Lightroom… you can complete 95% of what you need in that program.
Sorry, Scott, with this article you lost all my respect I had for you and I’m going to cancel my NAPP membership.
Bye, Marcus. :)
So much for respect of others opinions……
if these are your answers do not be surprised by personal attacks, I cannot believe that I actually admired you and bought your books in the past. I guess I’ll find some other Author to read maybe Marcus has some suggestions
Hm, I guess, Scott read the book “trust me, I’m lying” that was recommended on his show “the grid”. The essence is to just write something that makes everyone being angry so that plenty of posts will be written. Each one is a click on his blog that makes it more popular and brings in advertisement money. So, Scott just makes more money with all the posts.
Hi Scott, thanks for the article! Do I personally like switching over to the subscription plan? No. Am I considered a loyal customer? Yes, in that since starting with Adobe at CS4, I have upgraded each time within a few months of the release for the Master Suite. Does CC have a lot of cool-looking features? Absolutely. However, my concerns aren’t with the subscription model (although I’m not exactly a fan of it, I understand that piracy issues among others has helped to push them in this direction.), but more so with backwards compatibility.
Most, if not all of my clients have not made the move to CC, so any content I generate there is inaccessible to them (at least from what I have read and heard from fellow photographers and designers.) I personally would love to see some changes here, but aside from everything else (and my apologies for the all caps that are about to occur) GOOD FOR YOU for standing up for what you believe. There are some really cool features in the cloud, and I would love to get my hands on them. I’m just going to wait a bit longer for the dust to settle and the bugs in Premiere and others to get ironed out. Thanks for improving my already stellar view of you Scott.
And for the record, as long as prices remain somewhat stable, for the ‘loyal customers’ such as myself who use most of the Adobe Suite on a regular basis, this is indeed a much better financial solution… I just wish there was a way to access my files if anything was ever to happen to my account on the cloud.
no comment http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/adobe-hack-count-jumps-to-38-million-accounts
The comments section on your 7DMKII release video had some negative comments also.